New balance dataslate and new point values.

Count Adhemar wrote:

krayd wrote:

SarisKhan wrote:

Hey, we actually did get the FAQ at last: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/U1er9Wf5XzW3eMOl.pdf

We can now take an Arks of Omen detachment and an allied patrol detachment with working Obsessions as long as one is designated Kabal / Cult / Coven and the other something else. I expected something different, but this seems all right to me.

I suspected that something like this would happen, as I bet GW is tired of seeing triple patrol lists with haemonculus-less coven detachments and such.

To be honest, that one kind of annoys me too, from a fluff perspective. They need to make Haems worth taking and also give Drazhar a rule similar to the Corsairs where he can't be taken as the compulsory HQ slot.

I'd be pretty happy if they, at the very least, gave core back to the Talos.

krayd wrote:

I suspected that something like this would happen, as I bet GW is tired of seeing triple patrol lists with haemonculus-less coven detachments and such.

Then perhaps they should make Haemonculi worth taking?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

krayd wrote:

I suspected that something like this would happen, as I bet GW is tired of seeing triple patrol lists with haemonculus-less coven detachments and such.

Then perhaps they should make Haemonculi worth taking?

To be fair, if they made haemonculi better, coteries would probably break the game

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

Time will tell how all this mess shakes out (Space Marine Plasma Inceptor point increase REALLY helps us), but I am favourable.

And lets not forget: This is the most balanced 40k has ever been. By FAR. Even comparing to the begining of 9th edition, never mind looking at past editions. Look at all the different factions topping the LVO right now (even if our resident Master Archon Skari did get knocked out early).

Fun times ahead for us knife-ears

fisheyes wrote:

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

I hesitate with using a Wych Cult as the main AoO purely because they give no bonuses whatsoever to transports, whereas, say, OR Kabal would all your Dark Lances rerolls to wound.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

I hesitate with using a Wych Cult as the main AoO purely because they give no bonuses whatsoever to transports, whereas, say, OR Kabal would all your Dark Lances rerolls to wound.

Ya, but with our transports, you can run them in the main detachment and use the special “run as kabal”

Niurvindol wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

I hesitate with using a Wych Cult as the main AoO purely because they give no bonuses whatsoever to transports, whereas, say, OR Kabal would all your Dark Lances rerolls to wound.

Ya, but with our transports, you can run them in the main detachment and use the special “run as kabal”

And they still get no Kabal bonus because the main detachment is a Wych Cult one.

fisheyes wrote:

And lets not forget: This is the most balanced 40k has ever been. By FAR. Even comparing to the begining of 9th edition, never mind looking at past editions. Look at all the different factions topping the LVO right now (even if our resident Master Archon Skari did get knocked out early).

Fun times ahead for us knife-ears

As I understand, LVO used pre-balance dataslate rules and point values, due to timing. However, in theory, the upcoming meta should be more balanced. That is, if they didn't go a bit too far in handing out free marine wargear, and some other possible missteps in the new update.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Niurvindol wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

I hesitate with using a Wych Cult as the main AoO purely because they give no bonuses whatsoever to transports, whereas, say, OR Kabal would all your Dark Lances rerolls to wound.

Ya, but with our transports, you can run them in the main detachment and use the special “run as kabal”

And they still get no Kabal bonus because the main detachment is a Wych Cult one.

Or you just take a transport for a unit that you're not planning to put in the transport (e.g. mandrakes), and put wyches in it instead. The rules state that you have to have units in transports, but, unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't state that you have to put a specific unit from that detachment inside them.

krayd wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Niurvindol wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

If I were still building DE, I would go with a Wych Cult as the main AoO detatchment, then a DT Coven patrol to support.

Make use of all those FA slots we can now take by maxing out Hellions, plus a few minimum Reaver squads to score that sweet Behind Enemy Lines (which appears to be mandatory). Plus we can still access nearly the same amount of Elite slots for Incubi/Mandrakes.

I hesitate with using a Wych Cult as the main AoO purely because they give no bonuses whatsoever to transports, whereas, say, OR Kabal would all your Dark Lances rerolls to wound.

Ya, but with our transports, you can run them in the main detachment and use the special “run as kabal”

And they still get no Kabal bonus because the main detachment is a Wych Cult one.

Or you just take a transport for a unit that you're not planning to put in the transport (e.g. mandrakes), and put wyches in it instead. The rules state that you have to have units in transports, but, unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't state that you have to put a specific unit from that detachment inside them.

That's true, though in that case you do need enough surplus units in your secondary detachment to fill out your main one.

Personally I like DT Raiders with Dissies. Having 3 shots at flat 3 damage is nothing to sneeze at. IMO DT wracks and raiders remain our best shooting.

Having a Raider/Venom in your ToS/PK Wych Cult isnt a bad thing either. 3 attacks (possibly 6 if you have the spare points for Chainsnares) can force some tough decisions on the opponent.

And mainly I am thinking Wych Cult for the Secondary choices. My theory (which could be incorrect) is that we need to build around BEL/TTA/RND. These are the most synergistic of what we have available, and having Reavers/Hellions in abundance make the most sense in my twisted brain.