Uses for Harlequins

Has anyone found a use for these guys? I'm not the most skilled general, but from my experience, whatever purpose I've used them for, Incubi, Grotesques or Wracks would have worked just as well.
I've tried using them as a horde killer but their low saves have gotten them killed. Against super elites the rending from the Kisses haven't been enough.

I could conceivably see a use for them as a reactionary bodyguard for the slower Coven units but it seems to me that that isn't using them to their full power.

Harlies can allow for a almost sure WWP drop with a shadowseer and veil of tears they are very hard to shoot turn 1 allowing you to get the portal down. Other than that they offer some nice painting opportunities, the only true melta gun in the entire codex and a pretty good unit coming on from a portal.

Another way to use them is to by an objective sitter unit and a transport embark the harlies turn one and use them as a regular assault troop.

The Strange Dude has it right. Their best use is for safe WWP droppings. They are also a rock hard assault unit against targets we don't need help against (monstrous creatures and elite infantry).
But something a lot of people seem to forget Harlequins bring something quite unique to the DE army: str 6 firepower. And that from a safe distance! Now I hear most of you say we don't need str 6 weapons and that we can break down any armour with darklight weaponry, and I would mostly agree. However, str 6 is VERY useful in bringing down rhinos, trukks, raiders etc. Ask any Eldar player. And when you build a list without a couple of DL ravagers (because you want pain engines or razorwings) and do not want to spam fragile blasterborn or you face lots of weak vehicles, it might very well be worth the investment to take a couple of harlequins with a jester.
I've used harlequins extensively in my Eldar armies (no, I did NOT play a flying circus list during 4th), and people feared them so much they brought units specifically to counter my harlequins to the Dutch GT - which is a 120 player tournament.

Also, having tinkered with our Craftworld kin, Harlies are a fear unit. A lot of marine players react to Harlies like WTF am I supposed to do?

Xelkireth wrote:

A lot of marine players react to Harlies like WTF am I supposed to do?

Tyranid players have the same allergic reaction to harlequins. Although they fear pretty much everything in our codex .

They're better in Eldar armies tho, because of doom. And in 4th ed rending was a lot more powerful. They're still ok for Dark Eldar, I think, but kinda feel overshadowed by a lot of other things. Unlike the Incubi, they have grenades, which might be handy if you want some anti-elite infantry cc units that can function without an Archon.

I want to give them a try when I get going. As far as I can tell they do something very rare in the game - with the flip belt rule they remove an element of luck from the game - if the enemy are 13" away they are assaultable, no question. There are times you'd kill for that reliability.

Love the idea of using them to drop a WWP - hadn't occured to me. I want to try the book without using one though so I get used to the troops more (still don't have enough stuff done to play a game).

Um... but ain't them better in Raider or Venom?

Now if You would ask where is written they can take transport: nowhere. They can't buy it.

However if You happen to pick 10 Warriors with Lance (Raider) or some Wracks (Raider or Venom) as base objective sitter and have ~70 points...

Now why this is waaay better than WWP?

A) They start on board, which is good thing (unlike WWP you have 100% chance they are ready to kick some butt in turn 2. Note you can't embark and disembark in one (first) turn, however you may use Sails then to get into good position).

B) Raider is fast OT, which combined with charge and Fleet give You... 12"+2.999"+6"+D6"= 21.999" - 26.999" assault range. Just in case You would like to try some mindtrick on your enemy or pop his cherry from behind mountain

C) You don't need WWP then. Just in case You don't like it, but like clowns.

D) You have "additional" Lance/dual SC.

I think them being the WWP escort is a bad idea, or at least not a very good one. A WWP on a Haemonculus in a vehicle with a squad is much more effective (only, you probably want two). 12+" deployment in rather than 6" is pretty clearly a better situation. And in WWP armies, Harlies are much better coming out of the portal where they will have a better shot at not getting shot.

Some people buy them a Raider through a squatting squad, which is okay but they have to survive their vehicle getting shot for at least one extra turn before they can get into combat, not to mention their save won't help them anymore if the Raider does get destroyed than taking some open-field shots.

Personally, I like them being accompanied by the Baron (this isn't a super competitive unit, just I like the harlies and want to use them). He compliments them pretty well, not affecting their ability to ignore terrain while moving, boosting their CS while moving through the DT (Harlies with a 3+ save aren't pleasant), not taking away their H&R be joining, and giving them a few more nasty attacks to help in combat. The only problem is his slowing them down charging into DT, but you can split him off at that point if you must.

a1elbow wrote:

I think them being the WWP escort is a bad idea, or at least not a very good one. A WWP on a Haemonculus in a vehicle with a squad is much more effective (only, you probably want two). 12+" deployment in rather than 6" is pretty clearly a better situation. And in WWP armies, Harlies are much better coming out of the portal where they will have a better shot at not getting shot.

Coming from a Raider will get your WWP 12" forward. But the raider can be shot if you don't go first. The Harlequins will be safe no matter what. And if you plan to deploy most of your toys through a WWP you'll want to keep what you have on the table alive for as long as possible. That's the reason I prefer Harlequins over raiders as a WWP delivery system.

They make great distractions, the enemy can't shoot them but that doesn't stop them from trying

Radium wrote:

Coming from a Raider will get your WWP 12" forward. But the raider can be shot if you don't go first. The Harlequins will be safe no matter what. And if you plan to deploy most of your toys through a WWP you'll want to keep what you have on the table alive for as long as possible. That's the reason I prefer Harlequins over raiders as a WWP delivery system.

It will get you 12" plus 2+ deployment plus the pivot gain if you are into that, so it is closer to 16" which means 10" more inches in, which is a drastic increase in room to move for your reserves. Also, having all your eggs in one WWP telegraphs a lot of your strategy, delivering it with an expensive Harlie squad just compounds that.

Looking at my current avatar I now find this thread incredibly funny.

I'm going to work a unit of these guys into my 2k list, to go with Vect in a raider. Will report results of Vect's Suicide Carnival as soon as I can.

Sounds nice to have others trying the Harlequins as well.

I mostly use five as a "safe" place for my counter-attack Archon after delivering a WWP.
Seer, kisses and a Jester to pick on light transports and speeders.

The Achilles' heel of a harlequin str 6 platform and wwp delivery system with veil of tears is anything str 4 and above that can scout. Learned that the hard way against a Ravenwing player. That said if they don't have a way to get within 14" of them (about reliable shooting distance) and kill your portal they're effectively screwed.

What they are good for is bouncing in between combats in heavily assault oriented armies. Hit-and-run means you don't have to actually commit to any particular fight and they might be able to scoot to a place you'd rather have them, keeping their charge bonus on top of that, and most likely ignored by shooting if they focus on your raiders or mobs coming out of the portal. This is all best-case scenario, as they can dish out some power but they really can't take it back.

Comparing Harlequins to their biggest competitor, the Incubi (assuming Harlequins all have kisses, makign them and the Incubi equal in cost):

Incubi:
Pros:
s4
power weapons
3+ save
power from pain

Cons:
no grenades
no invulnerable saves

Harlequins:
Pros:
grenades
invulnerable save
hit and run
ignore terrain
veil of tears

cons:
low save
no power from pain (they have furious charge as standard but can't get fnp)
s3
no power weapons exept for the troupe master (rending's good but not quite as good)
no dedicated transport (veil counters this somewhat tho)

I'd say the Incubi are better at straight up killing marines, but Harlequins have the advantage againt anything with lots of power weapons, and most importantly, Harlequins don't need you to spend 100+ points on an Archon just to let them assault units in cover (hell, you don't even need to get them a transport if they have the veil). I'm considering including an unit of Harlequins in my 1750 point list for those reasons (I'm basically just adding 250 points to my 1500 point list, and feel I could use some good assault unit. However, 250 points is not enough to get an Archon, some Incubi and a Venom/Raider).

I used a squad of 7 Harlequins (Shadowseer included) as a bodyguard for my Archon. Had them RIP AND TEAR into a squad of Terminators. I killed 3 of them, then they sat there the whole game tying up the remaining 2, and the Chaplain with them. not the most effective unit but theyre damn cool on the tabletop.

I hope you remembered Hit-and-Running away from the combat after each of his turns, to shoot and charge again.

If not, there's a good tip for you...

I chose not to, I needed those terminators tied up and my wyches weren't close enough at the time.

If you disengage in his turn they will just move 3" and then you can shoot (atleast with the Harlequins own pistols) and charge again but with S4 and extra attacks.
If they weren't standing between 3-6" from an objective, I can't really see any reason not to.
If they did be 3-6" from an objective, I agree, it might be best just to keep them tied up.

speedfreek wrote:

If you disengage in his turn they will just move 3" and then you can shoot (atleast with the Harlequins own pistols) and charge again but with S4 and extra attacks.
If they weren't standing between 3-6" from an objective, I can't really see any reason not to.
If they did be 3-6" from an objective, I agree, it might be best just to keep them tied up.

Exactly. Never in your turn, always in theres, theres no reason not to, as it at least gives you the extra attack and FC. On the other hand, I've never played a game where hit and run every really became possible. Most of the time my harlequins would charge in, destroy some guys, lose some guys, and then get counter charged in my opponents turn and get wiped out. The only time these guys survive against any massed attack CC unit is if they are relatively high in number.

Now that said, when facing Space Marines they do fare rather well. Are there other better options in our book, probably, but they look cool, and as long as you take a strong force outside of this unit, the army will still do well. If only they had power from pain . There are so many easy ways to get FnP on any of our units from the start the fact that they don't have it hurts them as a viable option.

A Harly with kiss costs the same as an Incubi with straight up PW attacks, which I find a tad odd. Especially since mass Rending can come from Razorwing Flocks as well!

Raneth wrote:

A Harly with kiss costs the same as an Incubi with straight up PW attacks, which I find a tad odd. Especially since mass Rending can come from Razorwing Flocks as well!

Consider that Harlequins Also get
>Furious Charge
>Hit and Run
>an invulnerable save and shooting attacks
>3 attacks instead of 2
>ignore cover

Indeed in 2/3 of Your statment (ie cost and mass rending on Razorflocks), but Incubi are slightly different choice. No grenades, can't kill tanks (clowns can) and other minor differences.
[edit]
Torpedo summed it right. I actually suggest using mix of those two units.

Local_Ork wrote:

Indeed in 2/3 of Your statment (ie cost and mass rending on Razorflocks), but Incubi are slightly different choice. No grenades, can't kill tanks (clowns can) and other minor differences.

It's fortunate that one can't say a unit is strictly superior to another; it'd make for a boring Codex! But I do know I honestly hadn't considered Harlies for 1000pt, maybe they're too 'finesse' like Mandrakes...