So Far, So Good... But What Now?

Heya,

Well after having decided to collect a DE army, I went and bought a bunch of stuff. I've been told and have read that "Venom Spam" is rather en vogue right about now, but I don't think that's me. Foot slogging is a recipe for disaster with our chosen muse as well. So I thought about mixing the whole spam thing with some units that I find rather diggity. So before I ask some questions, here's what I have, all brand new and right out of the box (with how I'd equip them).

HQ
Archon 165pts
w/blast pistol, Huskblade, Ghost Plate, Combat Drugs, WWP
Haemonculus 140pts
w/Shattershard, Power weapon, WWP

Elites
Incubi (x5) 215pts
w/Klaivex, Bloodstone, Murderous Assault
Venom w/xtra Splinter Cannon

Troops
Kabalite Warrios (2 units of 5, both identical) 250pts
w/Blasters, Venom w/xtra Splinter Cannon

Heavy
Talos w/Chain Flails, Xtra HtH Weapon, Heat Lance 135pts
Talos w/Chain Flails, Xtra HtH Weapon 125pts
Cronos w/Spirit Vortex

Total so far: 1130pts

So here's where I'm at. I'm thinking of adding some Trueblood units to zip around with the troops but the crux of the list is the 2 HQs popping out some WWPs. With those deployed, the brace of Talos('s?) and the Cronos will make their entrance and eat face.

What do you all think? Am I omitting something glaring that I just can't see? What would you add to fill out a 15K list? Can "Half Spam" work?

About the only things that are etched in stone with my list are the Incubi and the 2 Talos Engines. Other than that, what would you all do if you had the above units to work with? Why?

I put this thread in the discussion forum because I guess I'm looking for more that "Moar Venoms!" as advice. I'm looking for some good feedback because I'd like to actually win some games once in awhile (my local meta is crazy cut throat).

Right then, I appreciate all the help.
Spleen Hammer

For what it's worth, I am a huge fan of Tolos/Cronos popping out of a WWP/ not a huge fan of Venom Spam. I am running a 1750 list with a talos and cronos out of a WWP and a Ravager for my heavy slots.

I would be concerned about two things with your list:
1.You sir need more troop choices. at 1500 you really want a minimum of 4 IMHO. Wyche units in Raiders would give you a little more AT punch as well as some butt kicking potential in CC. I run a maximum of two 5-man squads as Troop choices in any list under 1750. At T3, 5 man squads can break and run when their AV10 beer can transport pops.

2. I would really try to add more DL's. Seriously-I'm yelling "More Raiders" rather than "More Venoms". Your list really relies on delivering two seriously butch HQ's and Talos/Cronos through a WWP carried by Haemonculus that doesn't have a ride(all of your Venoms are full!).

I really think that you would enjoy playing Wyches given your penchant for close-ranged violence. Hope this helps.

Huh, I guess I didn't think about a ride for the Haemi...

What about taking out the Cronos, adding a Ravager (with some swag) and adding in a unit of 9 Wyches that the Haemi can tag along with in a Raider?

And truth be told, I'm not so much sold on close-ranged violence as I am on a balanced list that can deal with many threats. I initially was thinking Tau and superior firepower as a force, but they are due to be tweaked soon so I decided against them. I own a Carnifex (just because) so I was thinking maybe a pure melee list with the 'Nids was more to my liking. Then I read that all the stuff that I would want to use actually blows goats in 5th. This then lead me to DE and their overwhelming speed and tactical flexibility. So if one had to categorize what I am looking for it would be combined arms.

Some face wreckers supported by some killer small units and characters, with the tactical manoeuvrability of the troops and their venoms. I'm still kinda at a loss here. I look at the Marines and say to myself "Yeah, not gonna beat them." Ditto with dang near all the rest. About the only armies that I grin maniacally at the prospect of facing are horde armies, what with the profusion of splinter weaponry and all that.

I like your ideas and it gives me plenty to think about here. Thanks.

Spleen Hammer

Remember, Wracks are a little less versatile, but are far tougher for holding objectives. I've been using two 9-10 man Wrack units, two units of 10 Wyches, and the obligatory squad of five Kabalites in a Venom with Blaster for claiming late objectives. I think that adding a squad of 9 Wyches to escort the Haemi with WWP around is a great idea.

305 points serving as delivery of 330 points - and that's presuming the HQs are walking.
Hurm...

I've got a couple of strong thoughts about WWPs, and I'm just going to spit these out;

1. I think Archons should be coming out of portals or serving as an on board assault force - Archons are too valuable to have them dorking around wasting 1-2 turns they could be assaulting stuff in trying to set up some support tools all while being shot at.

Your Archon is an assault tool - let him assault, yeah?

2. Haems that deliver WWPs should be cheap since they're wasting 1-2 turns doing that and being shot in the face while they do it.

3. You should have enough stuff coming out of the WWP to justify taking it.

----

As currently stands I would advocate taking more assault stuff to make the WWPs even worth doing, or I would just design the list to be using footslogging Talosi. The current mix has some questionable holes as far as getting what you theoretically want done accomplished.

If you want tactical maneuverability and not Venoms then...well, Raiders. The Talos aren't bad footslogging either, you just need enough shooting threats to keep the enemy distracted.

So given that I dig Incubi and the Talos, what would you take for a 1.5K list (roughly)? Your arguments are compelling because they fly in the face with some of my more cut throat buddies and internet "friends" who are telling me that what I proposed initially would be the proverbial bees knees. Methinks they are looking to get me to field a less than optimal list... I sure wouldn't put it past them.

All the more reason to freakin' curb stomp them! So, the WWP's should poop out Wyches and Incubi then? Is it legal for them to deploy and assault in the same turn? I really ought to have looked into this stuff beforehand, eh?

Right on, I appreciate the input.

Spleen Hammer

You very much can deploy and assault from a WWP - a WWP is identical to your board edge as far as how your units treat it (except for vehicles).

If I was focused on Talos and Incubi my build would probably be something like this (very sketch outline);

2x Haems w. WWPs
1x Wracks in Raider (Haem)
1x Trueblasters in Raider (Haem)

1x Archon w. PGL
Incubi squad

3-4x Wych squads w. HWGs and Aggie

2-3 Talos

I'd pad it out with more Trueblasters and maybe a Ravager because you'll want a big anti-armor hit out the gate so things are not in transports by the time the assault tools arrive. There are lots of other good things you can work in depending on preference and point total - but at 1500 you'll probably want to keep it very lean since points will be tight.

It's still not a total 'stomp face and laugh about it' list, but it does have what you like and will be more competitive and shocking than the other army you posted in my opinion.

I play 1500 pts WWP and 2 hames tooled right are gonna help. Ether have the archon in the wwp or assaulting with the unit who are with the hames (leaving the hamies behind)

You shouldn't need the hamies in separate vehicles in my opinion. You just need a decent spread between the two portals in order not to get blocked by the enemy (which I never have seen anoy one doing.) I find about a venom's distance between the portal will allow plenty to come through. while a Raider's length is just about perfect. (if you lucky your opponent will funnel his troops between the two portals to assault you).

Groovy. Thanks for the move.

Now then, so the Wych squads should be how many strong? If they're being pooped from a WWP then having a small unit would not bear fruit so perhaps at least 10? How about including a Hekatrix? I've seen many a thread where there is little or no mention of having a "champion" included in many units. I'm presuming that this is to pare down on points and that having a champ would really not be all that beneficial, right?

How about equipping the Wyche's? Hydra gauntlets or Razorflails? Or none of the above and just go with HWGs?

Man, all this rumination about Wyche's makes me want to somehow squeeze Lelith in there somehow. She seems to be able to hold her own in hand to hand...

So, overall theory here:
Initial wave of Venoms and their respective units zip around attempting to take out a tank or two, perhaps some characters or units that could give me Tourrette's. The Haemonculi move up, pop out their WWPs and then the Wyche's make their debut. They then proceed to assault and roflstomp the rest of the bad guys. Is this correct so far?

Spleen Hammer