8th DE - what's good?

So the other threads about the new rules seem to mostly end up with people whining about one thing or another so I thought I'd start a thread about what people think is good in our new half-codex.

Personally I really like the new succubus - I wonder if she benefits from her own aura buff - does anyone know?

If so on turn 3 she is hitting on 2's and re-rolling 1's to hit - strength 5 and -3 to ap with 4 attacks. Probably give her a blaster as well for a 5th strength 8 attack. And that is all before combat drugs. Not bad for 72/82 points in my mind given that most things seem to have had a point increase.

Mandrakes for me, the change to deep strike has really helped them. As well as that baleblast delivering mortal wounds on a 6 means I'll be trying to assassinate characters or mugging terminator squads with them.

I like most of the stuff. The fact that we can shoot normally when moving our transports and shoot at -1 when advancing, makes us lethal and fast. Hellions feels usefull on the table, and the blast pistol does something for its point cost. It feels like a different army on the table now, and you can play much more agressively than before. In 7th I was allways thinking about acceptable losses, but with our vehicle's new durability, I can focus on crushing my opponent instead. Which is nice. The leadership bubble stuff is actually more usefull than i thought it would be and cp is a big boon when you miss or fail to wound with the voidraven. Oh! And our flyers are amazing! Against orks, they are killer. Voidraven survived a 2000 point ork shooting phase of focused fire and got away with taking a single wound.

Rusty293 wrote:

Mandrakes for me, the change to deep strike has really helped them. As well as that baleblast delivering mortal wounds on a 6 means I'll be trying to assassinate characters or mugging terminator squads with them.

Don`t forget about their boost of survivil potential. 5++ and -1 to hit is no joke

Kehmor wrote:

Personally I really like the new succubus - I wonder if she benefits from her own aura buff - does anyone know?

Yes, all Characters are considered within X inches of themselves. As such, if their ability is conferred to a keyword they also have, they profit from their own ability.

Myself, I've always leaned more towards the Coven side of things. I'll admit I haven't played a whole lot in either 6th or 7th, but I'm excited to dust off my Haemies, Urien, Wracks and Grots. I'm reading elsewhere that the jury is still out on the Pain Engines.
Obviously, the Haemie +1T buff will rock.

Biggest improvement is the lack of a Coven detachment! That sounds weird, but I always found myself jumping through hoops to make my army Battleforged and at the same time giving my Coven guys their improved PfP.
Now, however, I can take what I want without worrying about those missed opportunities.

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

The fact that we can shoot normally when moving our transports and shoot at -1 when advancing, makes us lethal and fast.

Is this true? I thought only assault weapons could do that?

Dissie Cannon is Assault 3. Dark Lance is changed from Heavy 1 to Assault 1 when equipped on a VEHICLE (Raider, Ravager, Razorwing)

Splinter Cannon is Rapid Fire 3.

Wow, just had a look at the void raven bomber - really like it - pretty survivable, big alpha strike (6 ish mortal wounds on basically any enemy unit on the first turn, with the right target you can almost pay for it with that) and then reasonable fire power for the rest of the game. Think I'd definitely go with the dark sycthes.

Is the Voidraven Bomber really that survivable though? Against an Ork army I am imagining 5+ to hit with a -1 to hit modifier making it 6's to hit.

Against a more skilled shooting army it might not have the same survivability...but I would agree with the sentiment that all of our vehicles are now harder to kill which is pretty cool.

You could even choose units like the Mandrakes, Venom, Razorwing Jet and Voidraven Bomber against armies like the orks...half your army would be at -1 to hit making Orks near useless at range.

In the context of the "game" GW put out, there is plenty that DE have that is good. Kabalites in particular stand out as all-stars. Cheap units that can put out dakka, take special weapons, and get a 6+++ save that can't be taken away. And they can now hurt any other model in the game.

I'd say the vast majority of DE stuff can be used effectively in the game. I have no specific problem with any specific DE unit, really(except maybe wyches still). Rather, the problem is that pretty much all of the units are wholly uninspired and bland, much like the basic game.

It would be great if we could have somehow balanced DE and made them good without gutting the game.

Oh well, on the bright side, pretty much all of DE are good now!

Post edited - Count Adhemar

What's good from my experience?

I think it's great that we balanced DE and made them good and gutted that ridiculous excuse for a "game" and got this actually smart, intuitive game that is 8th edition. Having nearly given up on 40k forever, I am not just willing to try it, I'm stoked for it.

Having built and played 3 different lists it is incredible that everything has a purpose, nothing seems irrelevant, and I can actually play completely different games that fit entirely different flavors. And, with just 3 games under my belt, anyone online that says a unit is weak like Wyches is either so clearly determined that they cannot be good or they just haven't played with them yet.

When the models are on the table all of the flavor seems as intact as ever. My DE feel like DE. Grey Knights, SM chapters, and Tau all felt like they were supposed to.

Whatever flavor any of you feel you can't live without, I'm excited that the game is not only palatable, but tastes pretty good. And I like it without salt.

With a little patience, a succubus to back them up and a little coverfire to lessen the overwatch, wyches can be quite good. They die easily but can do a lot of damage. I had a succubus, archon and 8 wyches exterminate 20 orks and two characters. Last man standing was the succubus and a hekatrix. I used the archon for the warlord trait leadership buff, that increased hekatrix to 9 ld, and made all battleshock tests. Turn 3 and 4 they start getting deadly and have more staying power.

Post edited - Count Adhemar

I like the fact that I can take almost anything and not feel like I'm hamstringing myself, it's really nice to know that units I haven't looked twice at in a long time will actually see play in 8th.

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

With a little patience, a succubus to back them up and a little coverfire to lessen the overwatch, wyches can be quite good. They die easily but can do a lot of damage. I had a succubus, archon and 8 wyches exterminate 20 orks and two characters. Last man standing was the succubus and a hekatrix. I used the archon for the warlord trait leadership buff, that increased hekatrix to 9 ld, and made all battleshock tests. Turn 3 and 4 they start getting deadly and have more staying power.

Nice to know wyches are dishing out the damage - I think our more survivable vehicles and the fact they can disembark and then charge will help a lot.

I think you might be using the archon incorrectly - I was under the impression it only applied to Kabal units - I might be wrong?

Post edited - Count Adhemar

nerdelemental wrote:

What's good from my experience?

I think it's great that we balanced DE and made them good and gutted that ridiculous excuse for a "game" and got this actually smart, intuitive game that is 8th edition. Having nearly given up on 40k forever, I am not just willing to try it, I'm stoked for it.

Having built and played 3 different lists it is incredible that everything has a purpose, nothing seems irrelevant, and I can actually play completely different games that fit entirely different flavors. And, with just 3 games under my belt, anyone online that says a unit is weak like Wyches is either so clearly determined that they cannot be good or they just haven't played with them yet.

When the models are on the table all of the flavor seems as intact as ever. My DE feel like DE. Grey Knights, SM chapters, and Tau all felt like they were supposed to.

Whatever flavor any of you feel you can't live without, I'm excited that the game is not only palatable, but tastes pretty good. And I like it without salt.

Points well founded and well made.
G'day and happy Wargaming/Forum-Trawling!

Post edited - Count Adhemar

Please stay on topic.

"I'ma let ya finish"

Stupid question.
I think this is wrong, but just to be sure.
If I have a kabalite standing on a venom. And he has a dark lance equipped, is the dark lance then equipped on the vehicle, thus turning into an assault weapon even if it is "equipped and on a vehicle" instead equipped directly onto a vehicle??

Meaver I think the rule only applies to weapons mounted on the Raider/Razorwing/Voidraven otherwise it would state it in the special rules for the weapon itself.

I am a bit worried about my MSU list now because of morale. But I am loving everything els.

|Meavar wrote:

Stupid question.
I think this is wrong, but just to be sure.
If I have a kabalite standing on a venom. And he has a dark lance equipped, is the dark lance then equipped on the vehicle, thus turning into an assault weapon even if it is "equipped and on a vehicle" instead equipped directly onto a vehicle??

The ability that turns it into an assault weapon states, "if it is equipped on a vehicle", so I would say no. The Infantryman's Dark Lance is equipped on that infantry unit and that you unit is embarked on the vehicle, not equipped on the vehicle so it does not become an assault weapon. Or at least that is my understanding of RAW.

Subsanity wrote:

I am a bit worried about my MSU list now because of morale. But I am loving everything els.

Small units are mostly immune to morale. It's d6 plus casualties minus ld =morale losses. With ld of 7 you are probably dead before morale failure causes issues

Think about MSU this way ... If it's wyches it is impossible for a unit of 5 wyches with the +2 leadership drug to fail a moral check as the hekatrix in the unit would then be ld 10 and even losing the other 4 she cant fail on the roll of a 6 and run away ... Had a hekatrix do just this and then proceed to take 3 plasma shots (the fourth missed) and make all three 6+++ saves and then shoot the unit with her blast pistol in overwatch killing the front bike thus making the charge fall short and not connect (the guy rolled a 4 and the hekatrix was standing 5 inches away from the bike she killed ... The rest of the unit was 6 inches away and couldn't get into the 1 inch range for the charge to connect). So all in all the drugs I think are pretty good this edition as they all had a purpose through the game +1 str didnt really help as strong 4 wounds toughness 5 bikes as easily as strong 3 but the others definitely had their uses. The 2" meant my succubus (didn't have the points to buy her a venom and didn't want to gimp one of my wych squads to fit her in with them) could keep up with the venoms enough with advancing to keep them in her bubble of rerolls and the toughness helped to keep my other succubus from dying as easily to bolder fire (she survived) and the 6+++ from pfp was great! So many saves were made because of it ... All in all I would say there is a lot of good that has come with this edition.

I am assuming the above comment is talking about 7th edition...otherwise why did he take away the biker from the front? In 8th you choose the casualty so the only credible option when losing models to overwatch is to take them from the back...also he only needs to get within 1" in 8th edition so a 4" charge with the target 5" away means the charge goes off.