New DE Player - Help needed please

Hi Guys

Here's the deal, this is my first post here so please be nice!

I've recently gotten back into playing 40k and have moved from a Thousand Sons Army over to the awesomeness that is Dark Eldar. I have picked up the Battleforce and 1 of each of the Finecast HQ models (generic HQ's NOT special chars) as a base line to build up from. I have spent the last few weeks toying around with army lists and have decided on a Kabalite focused army with supporting elements from the Covens and Cults.

Here is the list I keep coming up with but I could do with some advise to see where (if anywhere) I'm going wrong. It comes to about 2000 points but seeing as I'm at work and without my codex I can't be specific on points.

HQ

1x Archon - Husk Blade, Combat Drugs, Soultrap, Ghostplate Armour, Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Shadow Field

1x Haemonculus Ancient - Flesh Gauntlet, Liquifier Gun + WWP

ELITES

4x Incubi - Venom + 2x Splinter Cannons

4x Grotesques - Liquifier Gun + Abberation w. Scissor Hand - Raider

TROOPS

10 Warriors - Blaster, Dark Lance, Sybarite w. Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Agoniser

10 Warriors - Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite w. Phantasm Grenage Launcher + Agoniser

10 Wyches - 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w. Power Weapon - Raider - Night Shield + Flicker Field.

FAST ATK

5x Scourges - 2x Haywire Blasters + Solarite

5x Scourges - 2x Heat Lances + Solarite

6x Reavers - 2x Blasters, Arena Champion w. Venom Blade

HEAVY SUPPORT

1x Ravager - Night Shield + Flickerfield

1x Ravager - Night Shield + Flickerfield

1x Cronos Parasite Engine - Spirit Probe + Spirit Vortex.


Ok so here's the method to my madness....

The Archon rides with Incubi in Venom and the Haemonculus with Grotesques in Raider. Turn 1 I use Haemonculus to zoom out and set up the WWP. Once that is sorted have the Warriors, Reavers, Scourges w. Heat Lances and the Cronos deploy from the WWP whilst the Units mounted in vehicles, Scourges w. Haywire Blasters and Ravagers start on the field to provide covering fire for the portal.

I have also tried to keep a fairly balanced army in regards to Shooting and CC. Looking at it Iv got the Archon, Haemonculus, Grotesques, Incubi and Wyches for CC. Then the 2x Warrior units, 2x Scourge Units, Ravagers and Venom for shooting. Also the Cronos and Reavers can sort of fullfil either role.

Looking at this list I end up with 9 Dark Lances, 4 Blasters, 2 Haywire Blasters and 2 Heat Lances and more Splinter fire than I can shake a stick at.

Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated.

My biggest advice to new players or people switching from one army to another is to proxy as much as you can in friendly games until you have a good idea how the army plays and what direction you want to go with it. Once you have a good grasp on that, then start scooping up the models you need.

As for your list, it looks ok but you really do need some transports (raiders), drop the NS from the ravagers, drop the parasite engine(its ok in fun games but not very competitive plus for the same price you can get another ravager). Just keep playing and proxying and you will learn how the army works.

Best of luck!

It seems like I have probably gotten wrapped up in the coolness of the models or their rules rather than the practicality of them on the table top. I'll take a look at increasing the number of raiders + venoms on this list as well as dropping the Cronos and perhaps use the points to upgrade other things.

Thanks for the sound advice, looks like I've got some homework to do tonight!

If you can find the mega force in a local store grab that. The one by me still has 2 in stock and they are seriously good deals. There's nothing I there you wouldent use.

Also, if you can suggest a theme or play style then ask for input I'm sure the guy around here wouldent mind putting together some lists to help out.

I agree with jb, megaforces are amazing, and every Dark Eldar player should go get one, or two, or three...

Anyhoo, as far as the list goes, it's solid, but there are some tweaks I would do, if it were a list I was playing.
First off, I'd make the two five man scourge squads one ten man, and I'd drop the Solarite. He's too many points for +1 ld, and it's a unit you don't want in combat, so his extra attack is kinda wasted.
I'd drop the Haemi down to a regular instead of an ancient, because he doesn't really get that much more for the points.
I'd take another ravager over the chronos, as three darklances makes me happy.
If you're going to go the WWP route, I'd suggest switching the wyches and the warriors. Load the warriors in the raiders, so they can the mobility to redeploy to give supporting fire. Have the wyches pop out of the portal, so they can do what they do best.
A final word of the portals. If my memory serves me right, as I don't have the dex handy, WWP are not 1 per army. I'd suggest taking two, or more if you have the points to spring for another haemi. My reasoning is it takes a turn for you deploy it, and then bring on reserves the following turn. That gives your opponent a turn to circle the WWP, thus forcing your delicate wyches to hoof it across the table. With more than one, it gives you more options, and forces your opponent to choose a WWP to deny.

These are just my thoughts, but if this list works, then go with it. Just don't take mandrakes.

Quite fortunately my local GW store does have a mega force left which I will look into buying. I hadn't considered using the wwp for wyches but I will give it a go, I figured as they are only really protected whilst in cover or combat that a raider was a must but I do like the idea of warrior filled gunships *daydreams of star wars: return of the jedi* so I'll whip out my codex later and re-evaluate the list tonight. Hopefully I can play test the changes at the weekend and see what works.

Im tempted to stick with just the 2 ravagers as well, don't get me wrong they are insane especially with 3 DLs however I feel that taking up all my HS choices with Ravagers could limit me. I'll give it a try and perhaps also try a proxy razorwing for added AI see how that plays out.

In regards to the mandrakes comment I'm already in agreement, although the new models imo look epic their rules are just so poor its not worth spending 15pts per model. I mean no armour except 5+ inv, no power weps, no poison and no ranged attack until they gain a pain token, no rending and no upgrade options for the Nightfiend! Considering these guys are supposed to scare the DE they kinda fall short of their reputation.

Thanks again for the sound advice, it's always appreciated!

Hmm ok, here's chages I would make:

Kabalites:

drop the Sybarite, and put them in a Raider
drop the Dark Lance on the Squad if it's in a Raider - it can't move and fire otherwise.

Wyches
I always take an Agoniser, I've moved away from Wych weapons, but mine are magnetised so I can go back if needed. Don't bother with Nightshields, the things that mostly hurt you have 48' or more range. Yes people can kill you with bolters etc, but usually they do that after they's used up their lascannon shots.

Scourges
I find that when the rest of your army is riding in transports these guys cop all the AI fire. Keep them cheap!

Reavers
I have found these die so easily it's not funny - lose the arena champ, (you can use the same model as rider with CC weapon anyway) he's a point sink, that makes him no better versus enemy fire. Personally I never use mine anymore, but since you have the models, you might as well!


Re 3 Ravagers, we're only allowed to use 2 due to local comp, so I'd be happy with 2 + something else. I've not used my Chronos yet, so can say how they do. That said a Razorwing with Dissies and monoscythes has been working really well for me lately. If anyone targets it, it goes, but no-one ever does, for some reason they expect it to be hard to kill so they don't shoot it. Stormraven has helped u out here! You may want to consider one at a alter date.

With the influx of crons and gk into the meta ns are needed morecand more over ff

I agree with Baron. Listen to him, he speaks the truth.

Cheers guys! I must admit I wasn't expecting quite so much help but it's all good! I've taken on board all of the advise and tips given by all you lovely peeps and here is the revised list I have come up with. I've play tested some of the units in a smaller army to see how I get on with them and the most successful made this list.

HQ

1x Archon - Venom Blade , Ghostplate Armour, Combat Drugs, Soul-Trap + Phantasm Grenade Launcher

1x Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun + Scissor Hand

1x Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun + Scissor Hand

ELITES

4x Incubi + Venom + Splinter Cannon

4x Grotesques + Raider + Flickerfields

TROOPS

4x Wracks + Venom + Splinter Cannon

10x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster, Dark Lance, Sybarite + Power Weapon + Phantasm Grenade Launcher

10x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster , Splinter Cannon , Sybarite + Power Weapon + Raider - Flickerfields

10x Wyches - 2x Hydra Gauntlets , Haywire Grenades , Hekatrix + Power Weapon + Raider + Flickerfields

FAST ATTACK

5x Scourges - 2x Haywire Blasters

5x Scourges - 2x Heat Lances

6x Reavers - 2x Blasters

HEAVY SUPPORT

1x Ravager - Flickerfields

1x Ravager - Flickerfields

1999 Pts

So based on what has been said here are the changes made. I've trimmed down points where possible to allow for maximum troop no. so the Archons gear has been downgraded slightly, I had a major concern dropping the Shadow Field but I'm sure I could shave 30 points away from something else to fit that into the list.

Also dropped Nightshields from everything. Included 2 more transports (Venom + Wracks and another raider 2 put 1 of the Warrior squads in. Also I've taken out all the "Squad Sergeant" upgrades from my fast attack as the 10 pts per model couldn't really be justified on the Scourges or Reavers.

I also proxied a Cronos and although it did fairly well for about 2 turns when a 30 man squad of Hormagaunts with Toxin sacks charged him he went down like a lead balloon so he was also dropped. I've decided not to go with the WWP route seeing as almost everything in this list is mounted in transports so I figure a nice big conga line of raiders and venoms will scare the pants off my opponents, however with the points saved from the Archons gear and the WWP and downgraded the Haemonculus Ancient I was able to fit 2 Haemonculus into the army rather than just the Ancient. Happy days!

Hopefully this seems more competitive and well rounded but I'm open to criticism, feel free to comment

You made almost all the changes I would have suggested to your initial list

Love that you are actually going the grotesque route!!!!

Few suggestions........

Archons are one of those places that I think it pays to go mad (to an extent) with wargear. Unless they are with a squad with shardnets (in which case the clone field will be good) the shadow field is pretty mandatory I think. As is a power weapon of some kind. Agoniser, cheapish and cheerful. You can drop the soul trap and venom blade and nearly pay for it. Drop war gear on the syrabites to cover any other expenses. Warriors aren't aiming for CC, the archon is, so would deffo give em the tools. If you want more CC based troops, maybe take 2 wyche squads instead. I love what phantasm nade launchers look like, but peeps are unlikely to assault warriors, they'll shoot em, and if you hae the choose of charging with warriors, or shooting, you need a pretty good reason to not shoot, so keep the leader upgrades if you want the Ld and some CC abilities, but the PGL are a bit pricey for a warrior unit IMO.

Wracks. I take it you've left space in their venom for a Haemie to go with them. TBH, they don't need the pain token, and while FC of the bat is good, I can see one other unit in there that would LOVE that FnP. Your wyches.

Drop a wyche and 1 wyche weapon (cos u have to if u go down to 9, and the whw grenade), fill the wracks up to fill their venom and the wyches increase in survivability massively. You can prob pay for the archons toys with the change.

Looks like a nice fun list tho, lots of different things to play with.

I like the new list, you'll probably change it about a bit after a few games when you find what works for you.

to those that suggest Nightshields are good versus crons and GK, your meta must be really different to mine,

GK here are Dreadnoughts Razorback and LRs with very few 24" shooters, just enough to get the vehicles

Crons, yes losing 6" range might be useful agasint these guys, but then it's their scarabs and chain lightning that are killing me, not gaus shooting.

@ Fatuous, thanks for your reply, I did feel quite dirty toning down the Archons gear but I figured by going down the venom blade + soul trap route he'd he able to double his strength and get lots of re-rolls when wounding in combat. But I think your probably right with the warriors and the PGL, dropping that and the power weapons gives me 40 points to play with, in which case i'd upgrade the venom blade to a power weapon and give him a night shield. Also then by dropping the 1 wych and hydra gauntlet theres another 20 so by dropping the Arcons power weapon we can afford a Husk blade/agoniser and huzzah!

Theres definately some room re tweaks which I'll take into account and the advice has been really useful. In regards to night shields I figured they were useful and for the most part there were, they got my raiders from turn 1 death to about turn 2 lol. I dont see the point when they are going to go down anyways

I questions, are the Warrior upgraded to Sybarite good? Wouldnt those points be better spent somewhere else? The warriors should never be in a place to get anywhere near melee and with no BS increase, or extra gun options.. It seems like a slight waste to me, unless its for flavor.

I know exactly where your coming from with the Sybarites but here's why I keep them. Most of the people I play against have fairly combat heavy armies. My usual opponents are Tyranids and the guy uses Hormies and Stealers like they are going out of fashion, SW's in a Mech format with LOADS of Bloodclaws or Grey Hunters n combat speced Wolf Guard, Eldar with heavy combat aspects like Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Harlequins and lastly a undivided Iron Warriors CSM army who like setting Kharn loose among my ranks with a but load of Flamer Chosen and Beserkers.

Eventually when I battle my warriors WILL find themselves in a fistycuff and the Sybarites give them a fighting chance of at least dealing some hurt before the squad either runs or dies maybe even win the combat with some lucky rolls. However this shouldn't be a problem for the squad armed with splinter cannon as they are a gunship squad, its the other squad that's going to be exposed as they are primarily for holding objectives and tank sniping. Perhaps with the raider squad I can drop the sybarite to shave at least a few extra points for extra toys on the Archon or something. I'll re-evalute the list and put up my final one over the next day or so. Once again thanks for your comments.

The two main armys I fight, being my two friends who play them, are Chaos space marines and Dark Angels. I have a 2500 point list down there that i think is okay-ish anyways. Its basically a spam of dark lances and troops, but i find it when you have enough warriors in boats, and a few wych squads to run circles around the enemy and swamp them down the warriors arent general the main target.

I always use at least 1 squad of bloodbrides with 3 shardnets, just because its scary to have -3 attacks on a MC or HQ tying them up while you kill them easily. Pairing 9 brides with a Haemy or nicely build Archon w/ a clone field is a wonderful hunter, and it general makes people try and focus it, freeing up your warriors as long as they stay back.

Having warriors camp in boats a good distance away while your brides tie someone down wins, at least for me, every time because it takes to much to kill the brides but they cannot be ignored.

OK, Heres my final list. I'm really happy with how this looks now so please be gentle!

HQ

1x Archon - Husk Blade, Ghostplate Armour, Combat Drugs, Soul-Trap, Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Shadow Field

1x Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun + Scissor Hand

1x Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun + Scissor Hand

ELITES

4x Incubi + Venom + Splinter Cannon

4x Grotesques + Raider + Flickerfields

TROOPS

5x Wracks + Venom + Splinter Cannon

10x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster, Dark Lance, Sybarite + Agoniser

10x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster , Splinter Cannon + Raider - Flickerfields

9x Wyches - 1x Hydra Gauntlets , Hekatrix + Power Weapon + Raider + Flickerfields

FAST ATTACK

5x Scourges - 2x Haywire Blasters

5x Scourges - 2x Heat Lances

6x Reavers - 2x Blasters

HEAVY SUPPORT

1x Ravager - Flickerfields

1x Ravager - Flickerfields

1999 Pts

I decided to drop the Sybarite with the Raider squad of Warriors after thinknig about what MrBrokenAzs mentioned and changed the Power Weapon on the other Sybarite to an Agoniser and took off the PGL. Then I added a Wrack to the existing squad and dropped a Wych with Hydra Gauntlets so one of the Haemonculus can join at the start of the battle purely for FnP as recommended by Fatuous in his earlier post. I also dropped the Wyches' Haywire Grenades, I figured this was kind of a points sink because I dont really want them assaulting tanks. With the remaining points I decided to tool up the Archon with a Husk Blade replacement for the Venom Blade and also threw in a Shadow Field.

Looks pretty solid, the Archon seems semi point heavy, but if he can get in an Assault quickly it would work. I still would take clone field over shadow field, but thats all personal there.

Nice work.

If you like it, and it works for you, that's all that matters.

I hear where your coming from with this Archons points, he's in the 180 points region at the moment but over the weekend I had him trample his way through 5 plague marines, a rhino, 5 pathfinders and a Farseer all after his bodyguard were taken out due to a very unlucky lascannon shot to my transports followed up by a nasty Bladestorm. What makes this even funnier is after each pounding they sent his way he NEVER failed a single Shadow Field roll the entire battle which went on for 6 long turns. (In case any of you are wondering how he managed this awesome feat I was battling CW Eldar + Iron Warriors CSM vs. My DE and Tyranids). Tyranids got owned which was all good considering I was playing operation human/buggy shield

However I digress, thanks for the input guys. I appreciate all the help given by all you friendly Archons! I gave this list a play test over the weekend as mentioned above with my local stores army + my own models and not only was it incredibly fun but I very nearly battered an opponent I usual get battered by myself! Damn those dice gods and their fickle ways! A few more battles with this list and I'll be rocking and rolling.