Old Vs. New - Main Discussion Thread and Master Link List

Battle 1 - Archon vs. Archon WINNER - OLD!
Battle 2 - Wyches vs. Wyches WINNER - NEW!
Battle 3 - Vehicles vs. Vehicles WINNER - NEW!
Battle 4 - Archite vs. Succubus WINNER - OLD!
Battle 5 - Warp Beast Pack vs. Beastmasters WINNER - NEW!
Battle 6 - Reaver Jetbike Squad vs. Reavers WINNER - OLD!
Battle 7 - Haem vs. Haem WINNER - NEW!
Battle 8 - Incubi vs. Incubi WINNER - NEW!
Battle 9 - Mandrakes vs. Mandrakes WINNER - OLD!
Battle 10 - The Decapitator vs. Kheradruakh, The Decapitator WINNER - OLD!
Battle 11 - Talos vs. Talos Pain Engine WINNER - NEW!
Battle 12 - Warrior Squad/Raider Squad vs. Kabalite Warriors WINNER - OLD!
Battle 13 - Asdrubael Vect vs. Asdrubael Vect & Dais of Destruction
Battle 14 - Hellions vs. Hellions
Battle 15 - Urien Rakarth vs. Urien Rakarth
Battle 16 - Dark Eldar Retinue vs. Archon's Court
Battle 17 - Dark Eldar Scourges vs. Scourges
Battle 18 - Drazhar, Master of Blades vs. Drazhar, Master of Blades
Battle 19 - Grotesques vs. Wracks
Battle 20 - Lelith Hesperax vs. Lelith Hesperax




The basic gist of this idea has been niggling at me for a few days, but I've realized that when people ask me about the old codex and the shift to the new codex I went through a couple of answers. Right at the begining I was saying they were surprisingly the same. Then I began to announce that the new codex was more durable and had made us even better at shooting things. Nowadays I tend to stick to the better at shooting idea, but add in grumbles that we're now worse at assault.

Am I right?
Am I just a silly fuddy duddy?

We need to decide!

So I'll be hosting a series of polls here in the Tactics section. Each week(?) I'll post up a new matchup. We'll look at a unit from the new codex and we'll look at the unit it replaced from the old codex. I'll pontificate and blather about them for a while - I'll even go so far as to run some mathammer on them - see who is killing what better/worse. Talk about the equipment changes, and all that jazz. We aren't going to debate models or fluff, but just a flat out examination of which unit gave us a better tool to use to crush our foes into mincemeat.

Each writeup will also feature a 1v1 (or unit v unit) matchup of the two squads. So the old Archon will dust himself off to face the new Archon - Husk Blade will meet Punisher on the field of battle. Wyches will battle to see what Wych Weapons are truly the finest, and guns will be worn upon heads.

Each post will also include a poll - allowing everyone to cast their vote and decide what unit is truly the best. Will a Codex that stood for 12 years as an unchanged competitive monolith reign supreme? Or will the new and flashy update with a deeper range of workable strategies showcase that it is truly the superior animal of codex creep and modernization to the game edition?

Old vs. New, two codices enter, only one survives.

I like this idea, look forward to seeing what you have to say, particularly as I'm new to DE following the new codex/models

Mostly I'll be proud of guns on hats

As a preview - here are the matchups as I see them thus far;

Dark Eldar Lord (Archon) vs. Archon
Archite vs. Succubus
Haem vs. Haem
Dark Eldar Retinue vs. Archon's Court

Incubi vs. Incubi
Grotesques vs. Wracks
Mandrakes vs. Mandrakes
Wyches vs. Wyches
Warp Beast Pack vs. Beastmasters

Warrior Squad/Raider Squad vs. Kabalite Warriors (maybe split this one up? I dunno yet)
Raider vs. Raider

Reaver Jetbike Squad vs. Reavers
Hellions vs. Hellions
Dark Eldar Scourges vs. Scourges
Ravager vs. Ravager
Talos vs. Talos Pain Engine

Asdrubael Vect vs. Asdrubael Vect & Dais of Destruction
Urien Rakarth vs. Urien Rakarth
The Decapitator vs. Kheradruakh, The Decapitator
Drazhar, Master of Blades vs. Drazhar, Master of Blades
Lelith Hesperax vs. Lelith Hesperax

So there are around 21 battles to be held - should be interesting.

sounds amazing!!! Ill begin predictions...

Old Archon Vs New Archon- Old Archon wins: woulding on a 3+ with the punisher and old Combat drugs will pull him on top... as statistically they have the same same.

Archite vs Succubus- Archite wins: again old combat drugs are top dog...

Old Haemie vs New Haemie- New Haemie: this will be a close one, but I think the new haemie ability to take an Agoniser will help him alot

Retinue vs Court- Toss up: if you include incubi in the old retinue, then they will win by far... If its just warriors, the Court should be able to toss them around

Incubi vs Incubi- Incubi: Why I didnt seperate them they are basically the same thing, except for point cost (cant rememeber if they are the same or not) and the ability to take blasters

Grotesques vs Wracks- Wracks: They should win because what made the old Grots good will be negated by Wrack's poison attacks

Old Mandrakes vs New Mandrakes- New Mandrakes: S4 and the invul will prevail

Old Wyches vs New Wyches- Old Wyches: half weapon skill is amazing for hits

Warp Beasts vs Beastmasters- Beastmasters: the razorwing will be the huge difference

Warriors vs Kabalites- Warriors because Kabalites biggest strength (poison) will be out the window

Old Raider vs New Raider- New Raider: Flickerfields ftw

Old Reavers vs New Reavers- Old Reavers: That 3+ save is going to be a huge difference, although the new reavers never have to be stuck in combat with them to do damage, which could be a big thing if you dont just assume they shoot then go into combat.

Old Hellions vs New Hellions- New Hellions: better shooting will help them out

Old Scourges vs New Scourges- New Scourges: again their better shooting

Old Ravagers vs New Ravagers- New Ravagers: Flickerfields again, they are the only difference

Old Talos vs New Talos- Toss up: They are both pretty much the same, though the new Talos has better shooting, and can most conistantly get more attacks with 2d6

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Old Archon Vs New Archon- Old Archon wins: woulding on a 3+ with the punisher and old Combat drugs will pull him on top... as statistically they have the same same.

Looks like your prediction here held very true as most people agreed.

I think my plan moving forward is to kind of mix n match the order of the fights. So, instead of doing all the HQs first I'll maybe dip into some of the other slots. This will help keep things a little different (because, let's be frank, the Archite/Succubus question *is* rather similar to the Archon/Archon one) and will also allow me to play around with how I want to handle the non-single model matchups.

cant wait to see how right I am for each entry!!!

And the wych votes is kinda supprising... I guess people really like that they are troop and the new wych weapons. Idk why though :/

They are spread more or less evenly ("elves in bikini" count as old due to models?). Tie?

The thong votes are there as an old rule I learned.

Basically, with any poll, there are going to be people who want to troll it/will vote just to see the results/want to be amusing more than care about the poll. As such, I always provide one 'joke vote' option so they can do so without messing with anything else.

The thong votes won't count for the old Wyches

Me sad Ork

Tho old still came close enough to be competitive so I'm OK with result.

There's still a few days left, they might get a resurgence in the votes.

It's Tuesday, so that means a new Old vs. New - this time we're looking at the Vehicles. Will the Old Ravager's Dissies reign supreme, or will the sleek power of Flickerfields allow the New Codex to swing into the lead after its win in the Wych battle?

The next battle is up.

Also - there might be a couple delays in some upcoming battles since I'll be working out of town - but I'll probably move the updates to a weekend and still have them (mostly) on the weekly basis I've been working with.

Looks like Succubus/Wych Lord is another steamroll of a contest.

Anyone have any opinions of the timeframe of these polls? Is a week too long/just right/too short?

I think when it's a clear win like this I should try to accelerate into the next poll - any thoughts?

If the winner is clear (like this one, the raider) I think you should move on after maybe 5 days. The closest one yet was the wych one (if I rememeber right) then a week is fine

Also I would like to say your title is missleading. I wanted to see the Archite take on the Succubus, not the Dracite

Wych Lord is, by definition either/or for Archite/Dracite.

We could always do up a version of them versus each other - but it would basically be a quick discussion of statistical chance for the Archite to cause instant death if it was charged, and if it got the charge a brief battle description of 'Succubus goes smoosh'.

Beasts are getting their moment in the sun now - let the fur and tentacles fly!

Calling the Beastmasters one and opening up the Reaver battle - to the bikes!

By the skin of their skinny-skin teeth Old manages to eke out a win in the battle of the bikes.

However, up soon, the battle of the fleshsculptors. Has the new pain token tech made the New Haem unquestioned king? Or will old gear and cost savings allow Old to pick up another win.

New poll will be up either tonight or tomorrow morning.

New poll delayed due to my internet being down.

But now we have hot Haem on Haem action. Go vote!

I'm going to leave the Haem one open for at least the requisite week - though I think it's fairly safe to say that one is decided.

But for those who are bored of a landslide - now there's an Incubi battle as well, huzzah!

New has taken an aggressive lead now with another set of back to back victories.

But, now it's time to delve into the shadowy depths of both codices - Battle of the Loser Units Mandrakes is coming up next!

Okay, the Mandrakes are here and slapping each other in the face - go tell me who slaps better!

Old has scored a win in the Mandrake category...huzzah?

But next we'll continue the revue of pathetic as we explore a little bit of decapitation and which codex did it better. Expect that poll to appear tonight or sometime Sunday. (I predict tonight)

The Talos battle is up - it should be a...quick decision I suspect (though I've been wrong before, so who knows, go disagree with me )

If I don't get called into work tomorrow I'll go ahead and get up the Warrior battle then, as that should be a hotly contested one. If I do get work...meh, it will go up at some later date to be determined.

I officially do not work tomorrow.

My bank account's loss is your gain - the Warrior battle will go up then.