Kabal of the burning eye master list

ok so when i start collecting a new army i pick one unit for each slot on the standard force organisation chart and then I'd pick units from that and maybe tailor them to a particular opponent rather than starting from scratch each time.

HQ
Succubus, Hydra Gauntlets & Haywire Grenades - 75
Archon, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Blast pistol, Soul Trap, Webway portal, Ghostplate armour - 195
Court of the Archon, 3 Sslyth, Lhamaean, 2 Medusae, 3 Ur-Ghuls, Raider with shock prow, chain snares, grisly trophies, night shields and flickerfield - 285

ELITES
4 Incubi and Klaivex with bloodstone and onslaught in a venom with an extra splinter cannon and chain snares - 225
9 Mandrakes and nightfiend - 160
9 Bloodbrides and Syren with blast pistol and agoniser. 1 Hek with razorflails, 1 with hydra gauntlets, 1 with shardnet and impaler. Haywire grenades. In raider with disintegrator cannon, shock prow, chain snares, grisly trophies and flickerfield - 297

TROOPS
4 Wyches and Hek with blast pistol and agoniser, wych with razorflails. Haywire grenades. In venom with extra splinter cannon and chain snares - 185
9 Wyches and Hek with blast pistol and venom blade, wych with razorflails, wych with hydra gauntlets. Raider with disintegrator cannon, flickerfield and chain snares - 225
4 Warriors and Sybarite, with PGL, blast pistol and agoniser in venom with night shields, retrofire jets, chain snares and an extra splinter cannon - 195
9 Kabalite warriors and Sybarite with PGL, blast pistol and agoniser. Warrior with blaster, Warrior with Dark Lance, in raider with dark lance, flickerfield, chain snares, splinter racks, night shields and enhanced aethersails - 295
9 Kabalite warriors and Sybarite with PGL, blast pistol and agoniser. Warrior with shredder, warrior with splinter cannon, in raider with flickerfield, chain snares, splinter racks, night shields and enhanced aethersails - 270
19 Kabalite warriors and Sybarite with PGL, blast pistol and agoniser. 2 Warriors with splinter cannons, warrior with shredder - 270

FAST ATTACK
8 Reavers and Arena Champion with power spear. 2 reavers with blasters, 1 with heat lance. 2 reavers with cluster caltrops, 1 with grav talon - 310
14 Hellions and Helliarch with PGL and stunclaw - 275
9 Scourges and solarite with power spear and blast pistol. 2 scourges with haywire blaster, 1 with blaster and 1 with heat lance - 302

HEAVY SUPPORT
Razorwing with nightshields, flickerfield, 2 necrotoxin missiles, 2 shatterfield missiles and splinter cannon - 195
Ravager with nighshields and flickerfield - 125
Ravager with disintegrator cannons, night shields and flickerfield - 125

I can anticipate at least a few of the comments, but let me know what you think.

I don't have the codex in front of me but i'm pretty sure you can't take a hvy wpn in a 9 man kabalite unit(you need at least 10). Any particular reason as to why you're not filling them out? You are gypping yourself on weapons.

callofdoobie wrote:

I don't have the codex in front of me but i'm pretty sure you can't take a hvy wpn in a 9 man kabalite unit(you need at least 10). Any particular reason as to why you're not filling them out? You are gypping yourself on weapons.

I think it's 9 Warriors + 1 Sybarith, bringing the Squad to 10 (9+1). Same with RJB (8+1). You cannot take 4 Wyches - but 4 wyches + 1 Hekatrix

Yeah sorry if that was confusing, the sybarites and hekatrices are additional to the warrior and wych numbers, so the squadds are max strength.

That is a very unconventional list. To be honest I'm not sure how that's going to go for you. All I'm noticing is that there is very little AT for such a massive list points wise. And to be honest you should find a lot of tanks in 40k. However then again I wouldn't say I'm experienced so there is probably a high possibility that listening to me is a waste of time...

A good list, not bad to be competitive but could use a few changes. Definitely not enough things to deal against an armored up opponent, you would have a tough time with this list. You do have a few but not able to take on a dedicated army. Maybe both the ravagers having dark lances?

YAY for Mandrakes! I wouldn't suggest taking them out because people don't use them often. I like them…

So many wasted points ... so few AT weapons ...

Oh God ... mixed special weapons ... close-combat Kabalite Warriors ... I think I'm going to be sick ... (*bleargh*)

The whole list makes me fail morale IRL. Stop here, before you buy anything, and re-design. This is very bad.

I'm not even trying to be rude -- if you buy this, and you go up against something designed to win, you're going to be tabled, and it's going to suck horrendously. Do not try to design squads to do everything, like Marines -- DE are specialists, not generalists, and you need to design with AT in mind, first and foremost.

EDIT: I'm sorry.. I saw the Mandrakes on my first read through, but I tried to block them out. If you like the models, use them as something else -- Wracks, perhaps? Incubi? But don't use Mandrakes as Mandrakes. Mandrakes are the worst.

@Master of puppets. Thanks, that's what I was aiming for, I'm in no way an ultra competitive type and I dislike carbon copy squads intensely, but I see your point about AT, and DLs on the second ravager I think might be a sensible option.

@Veldrith. This would be the kind of comment I was anticipating. In its defence, it is not designed to be an ultra-competitive list, it's what I consider to be a fluff-based list for friendly play. As for the sybarites, yes I know they're not an efficient use of points and throwing warriors into close combat is not part of any battle-plan I'd have, but if for some reason I need to do that, I'd rather have an agoniser supporting it. Don't want any coven models in my list, the background i'm writing doesn't allow for it. Mandrakes are there as spoilers, they're just there to deploy well onto the field and stop some of the incoming fire until I can support them.

While Veldrith was pretty blunt about it he's not telling you lies, your list has a serious identity crisis. If you are going for fluff> competitiveness I can respect that but just remember it will not garnish you any mercy from that random marine player who spams melta/combi meltas, they will wipe you off the table and enjoy every second of it.

When I build fluff lists I usually make sure they go up against OTHER fluff lists tbh; everyone always says "it's a theme list i'm not worried about winning..blah blah" until they see their army shot to pieces in front of them(which especially hurts with fluffier lists cause you put time into their background). That tends to change ones mentality =).

Thanks Doobie,
dare I say it I've sort of allowed for getting shot to pieces in my background fluff - my Archon has only recently taken command of the Kabal and is relatively young and rash, and impatient. I'm new to playing the game (my last outing was third edition), though I've been a painter and collector for about 20 years so my plan is to start out playing friendly games only with stuff I want to use (like Mandrakes, read my background story here and you'll see why I want to take them and find a role where they can be useful). As i improve my generalship I'm expecting units to change and I may then refine the list to drop some squads or take others. My reason for posting the list therefore was to identify where I'm likely to have issues so I can try to address them, preferably through tactics rather than taking other units. As I improve, I'll write additional background for my archon and if necessary look at taking other units as he attracts more influence and power in Commorragh.

no offense, even as a fluff bound list, there is some serious problems with the list.

First off what do you gain from mixing special weapons? The purpose of special weapons is to maximize their potential. You run 2 heat lances so that you get twice the shots. If you run 1 heat lance and 1 blaster, then at the longer range (the bonus of the blaster) you are wasting those points for the heat lance, but if you go close to use the heat lance as well, then that blaster should of just been a heat lance and saved the points.

Just removing useless gear for your Unit Champs from your troop slots (so blast pistol from Hekatrix's and blast pistol, agoniser, and PGL from your Sybarites) you can save 210 points. That alone is another squads worth, spent on upgrades. I can not justify that at all. If you want a close combat sergeant, then just use a venom blade because its cheap and effective at its points cost. But putting 45pts of wargear on a T3 5+ model is rediculous, let alone doing it 3 times.

And while you spend rediculous points on Sybarites, your Succubus and Helliarch (which both should be in combat) are running around with garbage weapons. Where is their love for their agonisers? Shouldnt the two units that should be in combat get the better weapons?

On top of that what point limit is this, 2.5k? How many tanks are you going to be facing at that point? Even with a fluff list you are staring down atleast 5~7, and you do not have enough AT weapons to deal with so many tanks.

Trust me on this that no matter what you play, you will not win. You are so over cost that it is not funny, and any half decent player will wreck your AV 10 tin foil planes out of the sky and scoop up whats left by T3

@SR - It's not picked to a points limit, it's my master list to pick units from for particular games. I see your point about the weapons on the scourges, must admit I hadn't thought of it like that, though I had expected that in most games I'd split the scourges down into two five-man squads, one with a pair of haywire blasters and one with a heat lance and blaster. Similarly I can see what you mean about spending a lot of points on upgrades, but a) Sybarites carrying agonisers seems much more fluffy to me than a venom blade, after all, whips are much crueler than swords, and b) the only difference in statline between a sybarite and hekatrix/helliarch is one point of initiative. Since the sybarite is still going to strike first in most cases, the only difference is the squad it's with and I'd rather have a reliable tool like that if i have to throw warriors into combat. Similarly, the succubus and helliarch have weapons that only they can get, so are fluffier based on the units they're with.

true about the statline, but its not about stats, its more about the units specific job. Wyches are made for assault, hence their sarge should be carrying an assault weapon. Same goes with hellions, but they also have a shooty aspect (personally I dont like hellions, but I can understand why people want to run them. They are probably our only multi-purpose unit). Warriors are strictly all shooting. There is no "you know... my warriors could shoot, but I should assault" If that ever crosses your mind there is a problem. Now Im not saying never assault with them (well... I am, but bare with me) as there is a slight chance that you might want to assault with them over being assaulted, but normally their damage output from shooting far outweighs what minimual output they would have in combat. I understand the want to have sarges with special weapons, but going overboard like that will hurt your list everytime.

Secondly your thinking too laterally about your weapon choices. You said you like the whips better than the swords, why does that mean the whip cant be a barbed whip with venom oozing out of it? Just because it says "blade" in the name doesnt mean it has to be a bladed edge. Infact most people just use the whip and just say its a venom blade, or an agoniser as they see fit. The sky is the limit as long as you have the imagination for it.

Lastly the hydra gauntlets can be given to wyches, not just the succubus. On top of that you look at what you are paying for. 10 points for D6 extra attacks (not D6+1 for two close combat weapons... as the special rule of the gauntlets replaces that extra attack) which she hits on 3s, and wounds on 5s (against T4). Your averaging out 1 wound before armor saves, which guess what, any marine player worth his salt should make. Is 85 points worth that??? With an Agoniser she is doing two wounds on average without armor save. Statistically amazing, and why is a Succubus, the leader of an entire wych cult, running around with the best weapons DE have not fluffy? But a lowly Sybarite with one is?

Next is the stun claw, which is a waste of points period. First off the idea was to grab ICs out of squads so your Huskblade/Soultrap HQ could wander over and kill it in close combat. The problem being is that any IC will kill hellions 1 v 1. There is a reason no one takes them. It was a good idea in theory, bad in practice.