Scourge questions

So what I am wondering is how do you run your scourges, and how do you use them on the tabletop? What weaknesses do you think they present, and how do you try and mitigate your opponent taking advantage of them?

Their biggest weakness are... weapons with low range when you want pick cheap unit and those that limit their mobility when you want big unit.

I think that 10 with 4 Blasters form pretty good "all around" unit. I like cheap 5 + 2DL, for "Venom Spam" army.

I have run 5 with 2 haywire blasters on a couple of occasions and in that configuration they are one of the best vehicle suppression units in the game. The haywire blaster is an awesome weapon and scourges is one of the few places you can get them.

I think it is generally agreed that 5 with 2 Haywire Blasters is the optimal set up. I'm repeating what is being said obviously but vehicle supression is what you want and is an option not to be found in any other entry.

(I clearly know that the Talos can have it but surely he wants to be running or using a Heat Lance to open his food before eating it.)

For me it's either the Haywire Blasters or the Splinter Cannons. Not that most DE armies will really need the latter, but at least that works nicely with their shardcarbines. Haywire Blasters are the most useful option, though.

I think I may be running them in squads of 5 with haywire blasters after all. I've tried them with splinter cannons and it feels unnecessary with all the anti infantry firepower i have already. Shutting down big tanks seems useful though so i'm going to give it a whirl

I used 5 with 2 haywire blasters in a game, and they were very succesful in stopping an armour 14 front battlewagon doing any shooting all game. OK, it took 4 turns to actually finally destroy it - but the tank was bristling with guns - so as long as it wasn't shooting I was happy.

The Haywire blaster also compliments the shard carbines when you do shoot at infantry. An AP4 weapon is pretty decent against Orks, Eldar, Guard, Marine scouts etc.

Dose haywire blaster has any Str value??

I runs my with haywire blasters/blasters in bigger games, or plain in smaller....
I love them in new codex cuz of one thing, 4+/6++ saves....when actualy anything can die from bolters those guys stand and hit back

GrenAcid wrote:

Dose haywire blaster has any Str value??

I runs my with haywire blasters/blasters in bigger games, or plain in smaller....
I love them in new codex cuz of one thing, 4+/6++ saves....when actualy anything can die from bolters those guys stand and hit back

Haywire Blasters are str 4

Also, remember that if you can hit the rear armor of a vehicle (typically 10) or any Dark Eldar craft, the str 4 Haywire Blaster hit resolves before you go to glance and pen, meaning you can actually glance twice with one shot.

At least, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Haywire blasters are amazing indeed.

Blasters are decent, since they are also useful against MCs, Terminators, and the like.

Dark lances are actually okay, since they offer a safer version of the blaster shot (but not equal to haywire as anti-tank).

Splinter cannons are also okay, being safer anti-infantry/MC than carbines (but not as efficient for the points).

So it depends on your preferred role for them. My preference is the 5 w/ 2 haywire blasters, or 10 w/ just carbines and a Solarite w/ venom blade.

DrBored wrote:

GrenAcid wrote:

Dose haywire blaster has any Str value??

I runs my with haywire blasters/blasters in bigger games, or plain in smaller....
I love them in new codex cuz of one thing, 4+/6++ saves....when actualy anything can die from bolters those guys stand and hit back

Haywire Blasters are str 4

Also, remember that if you can hit the rear armor of a vehicle (typically 10) or any Dark Eldar craft, the str 4 Haywire Blaster hit resolves before you go to glance and pen, meaning you can actually glance twice with one shot.

At least, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is correct. Up to two glances (or glance and pen :lol) vs. AV 10.

You know, actually Haywire Blasters are nice AND this is only place where you can have them (Talos... pffff.) so why not?

DrBored wrote:

GrenAcid wrote:

Dose haywire blaster has any Str value??

I runs my with haywire blasters/blasters in bigger games, or plain in smaller....
I love them in new codex cuz of one thing, 4+/6++ saves....when actualy anything can die from bolters those guys stand and hit back

Haywire Blasters are str 4

Also, remember that if you can hit the rear armor of a vehicle (typically 10) or any Dark Eldar craft, the str 4 Haywire Blaster hit resolves before you go to glance and pen, meaning you can actually glance twice with one shot.

At least, please correct me if I'm wrong.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DrBored wrote:

At least, please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are not wrong; that is how they work. Rear armor shots or shooting against opposing AV10 does give you the chance to score two rolls on the Vehicle Damage table. Not great odds, but a chance is better than no chance.

My take on Scourges: they were the first 40k models I owned and the first 40k models I regretted owning. Seeing them come into their own in this book has made me a happy camper, indeed.

Here's what I think of their loadout options:

Haywire Blaster: I'll just start off with the best and compare the rest to it. This is the option for which you take Scourges. Haywire Blasters are serious suppression tools, useful against any and all vehicles in the game. From the aggravating Mechvet Chimera to the mighty Monolith, this shuts them all up. Additionally, Scourges are the best platform for it with their 12" move and 4+/6++ save; only the Talos can take one besides them and it's strictly subpar for an MC that likes killing transports.

The downside: you won't be killing vehicles, making them ill-suited to opening up transports. For a low(ish) cost, you too can reliably suppress 3 vehicles a turn!

Blaster: A great weapon whose assault nature takes full advantage of the Scourges' superior movement. We all know what Blasters do.

The downside: none, really. They're solid AT weapons.

Why I recommend taking Haywire Blasters instead: we can get Blasters everywhere else, in almost every force organization slot (barring Heavy Support, but then we get mobile Dark Lances which are in every way better, so shush). Fast Attack options unlock the ability to take effective weaponry that isn't found elsewhere in the army. If you want a 12" moving Blaster platform, I invite you to investigate Blaster Trueborn in a Venom.

Heat Lance: Our AP1 weapon and it's no slouch. Again, assault nature takes full advantage of Scourge mobility. 2 points more expensive than a standard Melta gun in exchange for 3" greater Melta range and slightly lower effectiveness against AV10-13 vehicles (though it's at the lower end of the curve, so that's not quite as important).

The downside: short ranged and not as effective against MCs as Blaster/Dark Lance loadouts (though with mass poisoned weapons, who cares?)

Why I recommend taking Haywire Blasters instead: It's all about the range. Heat Lances work on Reavers because they can EJB move into dangerous terrain, which they're likely to survive thanks to being Skilled Riders. This move can take them out of standard assault ranges (important for destroying transports) and can also allow them to weather shooting rather well. Scourges cannot do these things and are thus stuck inside assault range, quite possibly out of cover. It's still a good weapon to take with them (as it's a good weapon!) but Reaver Jetbikes get more mileage out of the Heat Lance than Scourges.

Dark Lances: Our premier ranged AT weapon. Again, if you don't know what this does, you're clearly playing a different army than me.

The downside: Heavy weapon. Scourges aren't Relentless.

Why I recommend taking Haywire Blasters instead: It's all about the mobility here. There are plenty of places to get mobile Dark Lances in this army. Why are you spending a good amount of points to get static AT weaponry? I try to maximize what Scourges inherently bring - the Dark Lance ignores too much.

Splinter Cannon: Finally, the Splinter Cannon, the Scourges' only non-AT weapon option. An excellent AI weapon, however.

The downside: Dark Eldar don't really hurt for AI weaponry; cramming AT in is the order of the day owing to the middling effect of Dark Lance/Blaster firepower as AT options.

Why I recommend taking Haywire Blasters instead: Reliable rolls on the vehicle damage table are not to be underestimated. Years of playing against vehicles has taught me this. Were this Foothammer 40k, the Splinter Cannon would be the go-to weapon as it synergizes perfectly with everything Scourges do: standard guns are great AI, Cannons can be fired on the move, and the squad pumps out a hellacious amount of firepower. However, this is not Foothammer 40k. With the new book, DE gained many excellent ways to deal with massive numbers of infantry, but must still build to deal with a good number of vehicles.

One note - Black Templars "Boom Boxes" (PotMS+EA Vindicators) don't care about HB. They move and shoot like nothing happened.

But it appears that I'm only person in my city that actually consider taking Vindicators (BT and BA at least), so this is not problem





Yes, this is spam.

So no one actualny even consider takeing shreders??
I use them time to time with some succes, how else you describe look on oponent face when you saying:
Ok, 9 poison shoots and 2 blast with 6S.....cheep, annoying, nice for fun times....and yes I know its not game winner but it worked for me.....in 400pt game

Not so much "boxez of doom"? Main "problem" with them (and SCannons) is that
a) Scourges already have decent troop mowing weapons
b) You can get those weapons elsewhere
c) "lack" of duality

However if You happen to pick 2 Heat lances You may actually add 2 Shredders (it's S6 shot after all)

rofl, shows you how much I consider them nowadays. Since Blasters got upgraded to 18", they've been the clear victor in Blaster/Shredder wars. It was sort-of questionable in the last book, but there's no reason I can really see to take Shredders.

But blaster cost 15 points....when shreder just 5pt....so when points are short bring some pies

I take shredders on my warrior squads so I don't need them on my scourges. Although I do agree with you shredders are awesome and definitely worth 5 pts!

What about the Solarite? 10pts for LD 9 and option for a Blast Pistol?

I suppose my question is this...

When it comes to writing a competitive list, a list made to win... how key are Scourges? I haven't seen them in many DE lists. Nobody has made an effort to convert them like people have with Venoms. So what's with Scourges? Are they really that good or are they too many points for what they do?

Are they Venoms, Blasterborn or Ravagers? No? Oh ok. They don't have a place in the ever popular copy and paste Darklight Storm list but I'm sure if you work at it and playtest them they will have a place in yours.

Darklight Storm. I like it.

Scourges are very reliable at vehicle suppression, which is very useful for protecting your own paper vehicles during turn one.

Sky Serpent wrote:

What about the Solarite? 10pts for LD 9 and option for a Blast Pistol?

Scourges preform better as a ranged unit instead of HtH. The fluff in the codex says they prefer to shoot the enemy from afar and then fly out of close combat range.

I plan on getting 2 boxes to make a 10 man unit armed with 2 splinter cannons and 2 haywire blasters. I find in most tournaments, having a jack of all trades unit, especially jump troops, serves better in a list than specialized units.

Meh, Blast pistol is all of 6", if it was 12" I'd be all for it on anything that could take it.
But 6" is just not points effective, between the upgrade and then the addition of the pistol, that model will be a bit too much for my liking.