2000 point Baron Haemy WWP list

For a while I have been calling this a Karnival of Pain but it seems to be getting away from a Karnival theme to more of an "Angry Hornets" list. Anyway, comments welcome:

Baron
Haemy w/ liquifier, agoniser and wwp
Haemy w/ liquifier, flesh gauntlet and wwp (waffeling here)

7 Wracks, 1 Acothyst (8 total) on a raider, NS and FF
9 Hellions, 1 Helliarch w/agoniser (10 total)
9 Hellions, 1 Helliarch w/agoniser (10 total)
9 Wyches, 1 Hekatrix, HWG, 2 Shardnets, Agoniser (10 total)
9 Wracks, 1 Acothyst, 2 liquifiers (10 total)

5 Scourges, 2 heatlances
5 Scourges, 2 heatlances
5 Scourges, 2 heatlances

Talos, twin-linked heatlance, twin-linked liquifier
Ravager, 3 lances, NS, FF
Razorwing Jetfighter, 2 lances, splinter cannon, 4 monos, NS, FF

The list isn't entirely obvious about the order of play - I think wwp lists need a little introduction on that.

1. Most likely both Haemys ride with wracks on a raider to make fearless. Of course terrain, opponent, first move and missions can change this but I do expect to run it this way.

2. Baron starts on board near the raider, once the Wracks and Haemys disembark the Baron will fly up and join to give them Stealth and then eventually steal 2 tokens to join whatever needs him most that enters the game through the portal.

3. Scourges are declared "deepstriking" but most likely use the portals. Of course, I do get risky and like to drop some scourges ala deepstrike for some rear armor action. Yes, somewhat suicidal but with the stuff coming out of the portal the opponent will not be overly concerned about scourges, they will be the least of his problems.

4. Raavager and Razorwing might start on the board but usually have been putting them in reserve too.

5. Depending if the Haemys both dropping their portals they will both join the large wrack squad once they emerge. They will take the remaining token from the wwp escort wracks (they will proceed to an objective) while this mini wrack-star (4 flamer templates) heads to the next objective or something to melt. The Baron can join these guys if they come out first or later in the game when its time to charge something.

*Been playing with 1 Hellion squad in the last 5 games and I am enamored with them, I want to try 2 squads of them.
*Wracks have been in just about every game I have ever played so they are a no brainer,
*Wyches are on the bubble, not sure putting them on foot in a portal is effective - I love wyches in a raider though.
*Been playing 2 squads of Scourges and somewhat impressed - want to try 3 squads to see if they get better.
*Took 1 Talos out to try the Ravager, I am nervous about that.
*Razorwing has been a little disappointing but I am still working out the order of battle for it. I usually reserve this guy for that far out devastator squad that I can't reach but any full squad of marines would be nice too. Taking this unit out for a Cronos would be a kick in the pants but I do need it to have some threat to armor in this spot.

I am playing a Space Marine game today and in this campaign game I have a +1 to the die roll for first move and +1 to reserve rolls - with the Baron I will have a +2 to the die roll to see who goes first. Reserves are coming out on a 3+ and so on hence the heavy amount of units in reserve.

The other list I was considering has an Archon with Harlies in it and no wracks (2 wych squads 2 Hellions) but think this 5 troop choice is over all better. My concern I have for over the last couple games have been the lack of a true close combat deathstar squad - I always seem to prefer more squads, we will see. As for the game, the campaign allows the tailoring of your list to the opponent so I do expect a marine list that is geared to destroy DE - we never played each other so I thought this list should throw him off balance if he is expecting me to go "Venom Spam" (which I am hoping for).

I will share the game results of the list and how the units played out to expectations - will they perform (dice willing) they way I expect them to.

Any thoughts and comments is welcome, I am playing this list in a couple hours from now so I doubt I will change it but you can always guess which units are going to fail to produce or shine.

Off to gather more slaves for slave pen!

I'm a big into WWPs. I feel that I can lend a couple of comments.

1. Putting all your eggs (WWP) in one basket (raider) is a bit risky. I feel that your relying on your campaigne bonus to much. Even though you get +2 for deployment you can still get shafted. Your oppent manages to destroy your raider in a poor portal position will force you to change your tactics to defensive and deny you from performing an alpha strike.

Suggestion: Have 1 haemy in the raider with the wracks. Have the baron, haemy and foot wracks in cover in a 6in radius to drop your portal. So now you force your opponent to go for either squad.

2. I love heatlances with a passion. The only issue I see with them is your basing alot of your AT on them. I play with a friend that has become a huge BA player and rocks 2 SRs in his list. The melta protection they provide wrecks havoc on my heatlance and being base 12 also is terrible for the rest of my AT. Let me not get started on the fact that he puts EA on the as well. I don't know if this list is going to be use in pick up games or just the campaign, but the lack of STR8 AT might cripple you.

Suggestion: Maybe drop 1 scourge squad for a 3-4 man Blasterborn (x2 if you can trim some fat somewhere else in the list). I actually run 2x 4 man blasterborn and 2 6man reavers with HL (I love the speed and EJB assualt move if I need to get back into cover).

3. Are the NS really needed. I used to think bringing NS and FF was a must. I slowly got out of that mindset. Mostly every weapon in any SM Codex out ranges you. If you want to be in range of shooting even with the NS you will still be in range for a counter shot. NS is only good if you don't have turn 1 and you castle in the tables corner and prevent the opponent from reaching you before you can move.

Suggestion: Thats 30pts you free from removing NS. I suggest using those points in helping you get Blasterborn.

4. Im starting to love hellions. I myself have Baron + 14 Hellions (currently playtesting with no helliarch). I just use them as a mobile AI unit. Just sit in cover and drop 30 rounds. Also if needed they can go and assist my wyches in assault and H/R out back into cover. There size also helps me with doing a conga line and getting two objectives if needed. My concern is your 2x 10 Hellion squads is that 1 squad doesn't get the baron buff. I havent had any experience with hellions without the baron buff, but I feel that hellions are pretty bad without it. (I may be wrong)

Suggestions: NA, I would just love to hear your results with 2 squads. I been wanting to try and make another squad in my list, but I don't want to cough up the money for an idea that doesnt work out. I think hellions may be my favorite troop choice.

5. HWGs on the wyches, is it needed? I began to play test games without having HWGs on my wyches. Results have been pretty good. Reason being is the wyches role is to just be a tarpit until my hellions or incubi come and save the day. My method of wrecking house is still shooting in a WWP list. So once my AT has destroyed any armor in my way, I start aiming at footsloggers with my Blasterborn, DLs, Hellions, and 20man x2 SC warrior squad.

Suggestion: Decide if you want your wyches to just be a tarpit or duel role. If you decide to get rid of the HWG you can put those 20pts somewhere else, maybe to blasterborn or an AGO for the 2nd haemy.

If you take any of these suggestions you can actually bring 2x 3man Blasterborn and still have 22pts to spare to upgrade your FG to an AGO on your haemy. I also wish you on a great victory. I'll be waiting to hear on some results. I know playing WWP is really hard (I think thats why I wont give up on it) but I hope with my suggestions and with your response, we both can become better WWP users.

The game I had was an epic fail.

I had made the wrong decisions, the dice compounded my mistakes and the opponent capitalized on them. It might have been the worst game I have ever played or very close to it with the DE codex. I am going to defend the list or at least not pass any judgement just yet so I may play it again and with some experience and better luck I can get a better idea if it is going to work or not.

So in a summary, most of what you said might happen did happen and you were mostly right about your suggestions. Here is a unit break down without writing a full battle report.

The game was annihilation dawn of war. Instant fail here, I think my last 6 or 7 games now were annihilation, I hate annihilation. I did get first move and took it but totally screwed up my wwp deploying system by putting a haemy and the walking wracks centrally on the map with the raider haemy, wracks and the baron coming on turn 1. I should not have done that, my initial plans were to keep the Haemys together with the Baron, deploy one wwp turn 1 and deploy a 2nd wwp turn 2. Didn't happen, total brain fart here and screwed the pooch. The first wwp was deployed just fine so that didn't hurt me, it was the not deploying the 2nd and did some other stuff with the wrack/haemy squad that got them shot down way deep in my deployment zone which actually saved their lives - they survived the game but did literally nothing.

More later.

Its the worst when your dice fight you as well. I don't mind losing, I just hate losing cause my dice made it a one way game. I'm actually going to play a game tomorrow with my list. Let me show you what I have planned and see what you think.

2000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

HQ:
1 Baron Sathonyx, 105 pts
2 Haemonculi, 170 pts (Webway Portal x1)
1 Haemonculus, 50 pts

Elite:
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 108 pts (Blaster x4)
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 108 pts (Blaster x4)
5 Incubi, 110 pts

Troops:
5 Kabalite Warriors, 130 pts (Blaster x1), 1 Raider (Flickerfield)
20 Kabalite Warriors, 200 pts (Splinter Cannon x2)
9 Wyches, 135 pts (Shardnet & Impaler x2), 1 Hekatrix (Venom Blade)
14 Hellion, 224 pts

Fast Attack:
6 Reavers, 156 pts (Heat Lance x2)
6 Reavers, 156 pts (Heat Lance x2)

Heavy Support:
1 Ravager, 115 pts (Flickerfield)
1 Ravager, 115 pts (Flickerfield)
1 Ravager, 115 pts (Flickerfield)

Depending on the mission, I can have a 20 man squad with FNP for objective holding. If it's KP I can do some PT swapping and have my Baron+Hellions have FNP/FC on turn 1 without CD. The incubi are just there to counter charge if needed or charge if the opposing unit isn't in cover. Wyches are a tarpit. I only have 2 WWP so one haemy in the raider, the other one will be with the hellion squad in cover with or without the baron, I'm going to try a strategy this other person spoke about on the forums; trying to start hellions with 2-3 PTs.

I've ran one squad of the trueborn without the venom (in the portal) and I do like them that way. Probably can not get myself to play 2 squads of them though i think I do need them.

Incubi, now that you mention it they would have been able to charge in my last 2 games without the need for grenades - that would have been nice to have.

Not crazy about warriors in general but if I ran them I would prefer the larger squad versus the smaller one.

Wyches and Hellions are nice although it seems neither have a power weapon - how is that working for you?

6 Reavers I ran in the last game - I like them.

Ravagers are not one of my favorites, I would rather have a talos but what do I know, I suck at this game.

I am anxious to hear how your game will turn out so please let me know. As for the rest of my list:

Wyches came out turn 2 and assaulted a Dreadnaught - they danced 2 turns before wrecking it and me only losing 1 wych.

Both Hellion squads came out turn 3 and each assaulted a separate marine squad. They were beating them nicely until Vulkan and 5 terminator combo charged in and turned the tide. Both Hellions were going to win but now they both lost combat res and were routed leaving 1 marine in each squad so I didn't get the kill point. Baron failed his 2+ save on the first save and was squished by a T-hammer.

Scourges completely whiffed as we found out that heatlances can not penetrate smoke that well. They did absolutely nothing and died promptly the next turn. Do land speeders get a 3+ save for turbo boosting? I thought they were only 4+ when they go flat-out.

Ravager also couldn't penetrate smoke, it was quickly immobilized and then destroyed by turn 3.

The Talos came out and popped a rhino with 10 marines inside. They lost 1 marine in the explosion and were pinned. The Talos failed the charge through difficult terrain luckily they were charged by the large wrack squad. The talos died the next turn to shooting.

Razorwing jetfighter also did nothing, I whiffed its shots and it was stunned the following 2 turns, I never got the missles off and that was a huge blunder by me. I believe it survived as I think it was immobilized and forgotten about - can't remember.

I think I broke some world records with dice rolling in this game. I believe I failed every morale check and at one point had 3 different squads falling back at the same time. I even had one squad of wracks swept by marines and that was where I only had a -1 combat resolution to a squad of wracks with an Acothyst.

I dunno, sometimes I feel this is the wrong kind of army for my kind of luck

Well I play tomorrow so I can tell you then.

I love blasterborn for awhile I would bring 3 squads of 4 but I started to notice I need something that can pack a punch in combat. Thus the Incubi.

Also, the good thing about the Baron is his buffs are great for everyone. If needed I can have the baron leave the hellions and support the 20 warriors in cover. I can also join the incubi and provide the PGL and maybe a PT if he has one to take from the hellions.

The smaller squad is more for WWP deployment. I have the mind set that the haemy and squad will die once they drop the portal. So i made them cheap but at least have a blaster if they manage to live.

Wyches can take blows but not return them. Hellions are great at dealing blows but not taking them. I figure to save on points and not bring an Ago or a Helliarch. Instead the wyches assault something and wait for the Hellions or Incubi to save the day. If I wait for the wyches to be in one turn of combat I can attack with the incubi or hellions and they can't be targeted. Then I can just Hit and Run back into cover. The hellions are there to control the middle table with shooting, counter chargeing, and wide threat range.

Reavers are my favorite. I except them to die, but if they manage to live they can run away 18-36" to come back for another shot at something a turn later. Scourges will just sit there and die and cant run away fast enough.

I haven't had a reason to take talos yet, I just love how cheap ravagers cost and they have at least some range. My next installment of the list might bring a talos or two. Also, my style of WWP is shooty than assault, I only have assault units to keep enemy units busy while I shoot stuff.

Grumpy Kwi wrote:

Do land speeders get a 3+ save for turbo boosting? I thought they were only 4+ when they go flat-out.

You're correct: fast skimmers get a 4+ cover save when moving flat out. (BRB p71 under 'Moving skimmers'). It's turbo boosting bikes that get a 3+.

I've wanted to try a wwp list for a while now, but so far I haven't dared to take the leap. This thread makes me want to try it.

Well its a fun play style and with the lack of raiders/venoms you can bring interesting combos and units. For you to get into you will need a different mind set. Just putting HQs in your list with WWP isn't enough. If you want I have some old batreps if you want to see how a game goes.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t1002-2000pts-wwp-vs-ba-doa

Here is the link to the BatRep of the game I played.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t2710-2000pts-wwp-vs-ba#28373