Quite new to DE, quite small army list, neet help for what's next

Hi everyone

I started again W40k couple of weeks ago with some friends and chose to play Dark Eldars

I started with ( I mean, the models I already have even though not all are mounted and few of them are painted ) :

1 raider
1 venom
1 archon
5 Incubi
20 Kabalite warrior

I am going for a kabalite army as I don't like much wyches, I'm gonna put 10 KW in the raider with 1 SC ( is it worth having one blaster in ? what about 1 shredder, it seems like a very good threat to people wanting to charge the unit, or maybe just no upgrades to have all weapons 24 range and lower cost ? ), and I wa planning to go for the venom containing 4 Incubi + the archon.
The rest of the troop is gonna be walking atm.

I started converting dark lances into blasters ( blasterborn powaaa ), so the next step is to have 5 trueborn in the venom with 4 blaster and one normal splinter rifle I guess ( or I should put a SC maybe ? ) ( so Basically, within my 20 Kabalite, I can't have 2x10 as troops since I have 4 blaster tm ).

if I do that, I'll have left after eh blasterborn units :

1 archon
5 Incubi
10 Kabalite Warrior in the raider
5 kabalite warrior

so no transport for the CC elite/HQ which sucks.

My main question is here : what for a transport ? I'm wondering if I have enough DarkLight weapons ( one of my friends will be playing Grey Knighs, and I'm gonna really fear his dreadnoughs with twin heaver bolter of whatsoever it's geared with I guess ), if I pick a venom and I should be able to have one more Incubi. On the other hand, it costs a bit more and the Archon ( haywire grenades and blaster pistol ) will prolly just assault vehicules on the charge.

Thanks for your answers =)).

Hi and welcome to The Dark City.

As you may be aware, a new edition of the 40k rules is to be released in a few days, so we're currently all unsure what effect this will have on the Dark Eldar. Many seem to think (based on rumours) that the new rules favour Warrior shooting over Wych assaults, so if that's right your army theme should be great. Guess we'll have to wait and see...

So, I tried a few games with friends at 750 points, I had something like :

Code:

- HQ :
Archon ( blast pistol, Agonizer, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs PGL )

- Elite :
 4 Incubbi ( Klaivex and DK )
+ Venom  ( additionnal SC )

 5 TrueBorns ( 4 blaster )
+ Venom ( additionnal SC )

- Troops

10 KAbalite Warrios ( blaster, SC )
+ Raider ( FF, NS, Splinter Racks )

8 Kabalite Warrios ( shredder )

I think it was something like that, I took the 8Kabalite Warrrios to fill to 750 points and they stayed quite near to an objective, shooting some chaos beast.
I use 9 DL shots ( 2 turns blasterborns and 1 from raider ) to a chaos Dreadnought => he just ... survived ://
So I feel like some more AT would be nice ( we didn't know that transport could shoot another unit than passengers, because my friends were "sure" of it ^^" ), but :
- I don't like much wyches
- Scourges are quite expensive, would 5 be enough to destroy tanks ? because without a 6, it only removes hull points ....

I have here already quite many DL shots + the archon squad that can rush a transport ( as the back armor of it is used in case of CC, 4 S or even 5 for the Klaivex makes a quite good chance to remove 2 hull points, does it need more or have I just been very unlucky ?

I noticed as well than having a blaster within a 10 man squad won't help destroying vehicles because :
- I'm usually not gonna shoot 8+4 or 16+4 poisonned shots on a vehicles for a very small chance of destroying it ...
- if the raider crashes, the opponent choose which unit takes the unsaved S4 wounds from it -> no more blaster.
Another thing I realised is that I could get a blaster on my Archon which was much better, and that PGL and combat drugs made him prolly too expensive for such a list ).



I have a list ( without just stuff to fill to some point ^^" ) for 1k points, what do you think about it ? I know I could replace the Talos by a ravager but I really like the model and I feel like the double poison blast ( whatever the name is in english lol ) @ assault 2 explosion can be a nice threat for my opponent.

Code:

 ====== HQ ======
Archon ( Blaster, Agonizer, Shadow field )

 ===== Elite ======
Incubbi*4 ( Klaivex, DK )
+Venom ( SC )

TrueBorn*4 ( blaster*4 )
+Venom ( SC )

 ==== Troops =====

Kabalite Warriors*10  ( shredder, SC )
+Raider ( Splinter racks )

Kabalite Warriors*10 ( shredder; SC )
+raider ( Splinter racks )

Kabalite Warriors*6 ( shredder )

 === Heavy support ===
Talos pain Engine ( the exposion weapon, and the rerollable D6 )

which makes exactly 1000 points I think.

What would be your advices for such a list ?
The footslogger kabalite warriors where still usefull in the other game for the objective and some more support fire, so I think they should be fine with a Talos.
The problem would be ... not enough AT ? =(((((
What about some simple trueborns in a venom with haywire grenades ? they would be actually more effective than wyches since the have more attacks, but is that not suiciding them to try to destroy even a single vehicle ? ( plus I have to buy another venom >< I already need to buy the Talos and one more raider to have the list actually lol.

Needsome oppinions and advices =))

Fruz wrote:

So, I tried a few games with friends at 750 points, I had something like :

I think it was something like that, I took the 8Kabalite Warrrios to fill to 750 points and they stayed quite near to an objective, shooting some chaos beast.
I use 9 DL shots ( 2 turns blasterborns and 1 from raider ) to a chaos Dreadnought => he just ... survived ://
So I feel like some more AT would be nice ( we didn't know that transport could shoot another unit than passengers, because my friends were "sure" of it ^^" ), but :
- I don't like much wyches
- Scourges are quite expensive, would 5 be enough to destroy tanks ? because without a 6, it only removes hull points ....

If you don't like Wyches, that's fine, but I have to say that they are an anti tank force to be reckoned with. A ten (wo)men squad will bring down any vehicle, even Landraiders or Monoliths rather effectively.
With scourges you might want to take ten, too. Two Haywire Blasters will practically never bring down anything in one round. Heatlances might, but it's still a gamble.
Luckily with hull points it's very unlikely to put 9 darklight weapons into anything without hurting it anymore, so that's a benefit.

Fruz wrote:

I have here already quite many DL shots + the archon squad that can rush a transport ( as the back armor of it is used in case of CC, 4 S or even 5 for the Klaivex makes a quite good chance to remove 2 hull points, does it need more or have I just been very unlucky ?

It can work, but I'd deem it rather risky. 1. you can get snap fired by passengers, 2. you rely on good rolls, when needing 6's and last but not least 3. two hull points is not enough. So you expose yourself to do something neither Incubi nor Archons excel at.

Fruz wrote:

I noticed as well than having a blaster within a 10 man squad won't help destroying vehicles because :
- I'm usually not gonna shoot 8+4 or 16+4 poisonned shots on a vehicles for a very small chance of destroying it ...
- if the raider crashes, the opponent choose which unit takes the unsaved S4 wounds from it -> no more blaster.
Another thing I realised is that I could get a blaster on my Archon which was much better, and that PGL and combat drugs made him prolly too expensive for such a list ).

- I agree, that the Blaster in ten man squad doesn't add much to your AT pool, but it's nice to have as a backup in dire situations or just to help shooting tough or armored targets. And I don't find the Shredder too impressive. Yes S6 is nice, but the short range, the inability to fire snap shots and AP- aren't exactly advantages. If you take it for the high strength, blasters are better. If you take it for the ability to maybe damage light vehicles, blasters are better and if you take it for the possibility to harm multiple foes, then let me tell you, that it is not as impressive as it sounds. If your opponent spreads out his units you will seldom hit more than two models.
- Don't know where you got from that your opponent chooses, who takes the wounds, but in case of exploding vehicles it's always the controlling player aka you.
- A Blaster can work on an Archon, but I'd prefer the Blastpistol, if any. The additional attack is too tempting, which you'd loose, unless you take the Djin Blade for a whopping 20 pts.

Fruz wrote:

I have a list ( without just stuff to fill to some point ^^" ) for 1k points, what do you think about it ? I know I could replace the Talos by a ravager but I really like the model and I feel like the double poison blast ( whatever the name is in english lol ) @ assault 2 explosion can be a nice threat for my opponent.

Code:

 ====== HQ ======
Archon ( Blaster, Agonizer, Shadow field )

 ===== Elite ======
Incubbi*4 ( Klaivex, DK )
+Venom ( SC )

TrueBorn*4 ( blaster*4 )
+Venom ( SC )

 ==== Troops =====

Kabalite Warriors*10  ( shredder, SC )
+Raider ( Splinter racks )

Kabalite Warriors*10 ( shredder; SC )
+raider ( Splinter racks )

Kabalite Warriors*6 ( shredder )

 === Heavy support ===
Talos pain Engine ( the exposion weapon, and the rerollable D6 )

which makes exactly 1000 points I think.

I come out at 1010, but that's not my greatest problem.

Fruz wrote:

What would be your advices for such a list ?
The footslogger kabalite warriors where still usefull in the other game for the objective and some more support fire, so I think they should be fine with a Talos.
The problem would be ... not enough AT ? =(((((
What about some simple trueborns in a venom with haywire grenades ? they would be actually more effective than wyches since the have more attacks, but is that not suiciding them to try to destroy even a single vehicle ? ( plus I have to buy another venom >< I already need to buy the Talos and one more raider to have the list actually lol.

Needsome oppinions and advices =))

1. You need more AT. You only have 5 units even able to hurt vehicles and only two to three can do so reliably. The Trueborn are good. The Talos is so, too, but it's fitted to shoot infantry, so it's wasted potential. The Incubi + Archon could hurt AV10 vehicles, but as said before it's a. wasted potential and b. not very reliable.
2. If you run an Archon with Incubi you want a PGL. I know it's expensive, but it pays off.
3. Trueborn with Haywiregrenades are actually less effective than wyches, because they are much more expensive and the additional attacks don't pay off, because you can only make one attack with grenades, regardless of base attacks.
4. I know it's hard to get through this phase, and I get often tempted by new shiny things to grab, but when starting Dark Eldar it is essential to buy enough transports to support your army. Footslogging Warriors are sitting ducks. Footslogging Wyches or Incubi are fish in a barrel, without barrel. I know it's hard to see Marine players buy a box of Terminators and putting them out of the box, right on the table, but DE rely on their units to complement each other.

I'd encourage you to buy another venom or raider, it will suit you well and almost always come in handy.
If you don't want an other transport right now, get a ravager. It will help filling your AT gap and can serve as a raider, if needed.
Or at least add some units that don't need transports, like Scourges, Hellions or Reavers.
I once made the mistake of expanding my force to quickly and regretted it. Nothing is so bugging as to have units you can't use properly.

That all said, have fun playing and bring pain to the Mon'Keigh.

Thanks a lot for your answdder first

Quote :

- I agree, that the Blaster in ten man squad doesn't add much to your AT pool, but it's nice to have as a backup in dire situations or just to help shooting tough or armored targets. And I don't find the Shredder too impressive. Yes S6 is nice, but the short range, the inability to fire snap shots and AP- aren't exactly advantages. If you take it for the high strength, blasters are better. If you take it for the ability to maybe damage light vehicles, blasters are better and if you take it for the possibility to harm multiple foes, then let me tell you, that it is not as impressive as it sounds. If your opponent spreads out his units you will seldom hit more than two models.

Well, the cheap price + the fact that it force the opponent to split his units ( = can mean no cover or more units not in cover that I can reach ) + hotting quite often more than one unit is quite nice to me, plus psycologicaly, it's never nice having an opponent with blasts :pp
but I need more games with shredders to have a real accurate opinion on it anyway.

Quote :

- Don't know where you got from that your opponent chooses, who takes the wounds, but in case of exploding vehicles it's always the controlling player aka you.

I think that in the rulebook it is said "the operating players allocates the wounds", which we understood as the nnemy player because it happens when he destorys it, but I can be wrong of course.

Quote :

- A Blaster can work on an Archon, but I'd prefer the Blastpistol, if any. The additional attack is too tempting, which you'd loose, unless you take the Djin Blade for a whopping 20 pts.

I don't like S3 attack without saves :pp, I preffer begin able to eventually shoot from 18 a blaster shot.

I completely forgot about one attack for one HWG, you're totally right about that.
So as I feared, there is not enough AT =((
What could I take to get some more ? :
- scourges ( don't have enough points for taking 10 I think, or I'll have to sacrifice something else )
- ravager
- blasterborns ( but I feel like one unit is enough there atm, it's an expensive one ! )
- Talos with HWrifle ? I don't really like the face that it shoots only once =S.
- RJB ? I read that it was a good AT but ... it's only 6 strength right ? it needs a 6 remove 1 Hull Point on a heavy vehicle :S, or am I missing some rule here ?
- I'm not gonna take flyers at the moment, I don't really like the razorwing model and I don't really want to create a voidraven from something else at the moment, I need to finish painting some stuff and I'll have to buy another raider at least and a Talos ^^"

And the couple of footslogger kabalite warriors were always staying into cover near an objective on my side of the table, that's how they could be usefull, but we had no deepstrike on that game and he couldn't reach there.

what it the advantage of PGL ? if my understanding of it is correct, it permits not to have I1 when charging ennemies that are in cover ?

Fruz wrote:

Thanks a lot for your answdder first

Well, the cheap price + the fact that it force the opponent to split his units ( = can mean no cover or more units not in cover that I can reach ) + hotting quite often more than one unit is quite nice to me, plus psycologicaly, it's never nice having an opponent with blasts :pp
but I need more games with shredders to have a real accurate opinion on it anyway.

You're welcome!

If shredders work for you, that's fine.

Fruze wrote:

I think that in the rulebook it is said "the operating players allocates the wounds", which we understood as the nnemy player because it happens when he destorys it, but I can be wrong of course.

The English and German version say 'controlling player', who is always the player controlling the models in question and not the player 'controlling' the current turn.

Fruze wrote:

I don't like S3 attack without saves :pp, I preffer begin able to eventually shoot from 18 a blaster shot.

I completely forgot about one attack for one HWG, you're totally right about that.
So as I feared, there is not enough AT =((
What could I take to get some more ? :
- scourges ( don't have enough points for taking 10 I think, or I'll have to sacrifice something else )
- ravager
- blasterborns ( but I feel like one unit is enough there atm, it's an expensive one ! )
- Talos with HWrifle ? I don't really like the face that it shoots only once =S.
- RJB ? I read that it was a good AT but ... it's only 6 strength right ? it needs a 6 remove 1 Hull Point on a heavy vehicle :S, or am I missing some rule here ?
- I'm not gonna take flyers at the moment, I don't really like the razorwing model and I don't really want to create a voidraven from something else at the moment, I need to finish painting some stuff and I'll have to buy another raider at least and a Talos ^^"

Sadly you don't have the spare points to add AT easily, but if you shave off something here and there it can work. Fortunately it will be ok to add one to two dedicated AT units to balance the list. It would be good to get a Ravager in, because it's our best deal for AT firepower. But Reavers or Scourges would do, if not as cheap.
For the heatlance, don't forget that it has the Melta rule, so if in 9" or less you roll 2D6 and add them, so it will penetrate AV12 on an average roll and since it has the lance rule all (well almost all) armor is maximum 12.

Fruze wrote:

And the couple of footslogger kabalite warriors were always staying into cover near an objective on my side of the table, that's how they could be usefull, but we had no deepstrike on that game and he couldn't reach there.

what it the advantage of PGL ? if my understanding of it is correct, it permits not to have I1 when charging ennemies that are in cover ?

That is indeed the most important part of a PGL. If assaulting into or through cover you'll strike at your own initiative, which is quite important for Incubi, because one of their strengths is attacking first and taking less backlash.
But it does more. If you should get assaulted your opponent doesn't get the bonus attack and if your shot at from 8" or less, which will happen quite often with overwatch you gain stealth and so a 6++ save. May not sound much, but has saved my ass multiple times in the last two weaks.

I have to apologize, but I think I can't really come up with a complete list, since I'd probably drop the Archon, the Incubi, the 10 man warrior squads, the footsloggers and the Talos. And then it wouldn't be your list anymore.

Just as a little advice, it is very generic and of course not true for all armies, but I noticed that most 1000pt lists (in my gaming group, at lest. If your's totally different adjust to that) feature around 5 vehicle and 5 Infantry squads. Your's falls perfectly into that category. I found it extremely hard to compete with this type of lists with 7-8 AI squads and only 2-3 dedicated AT units, especially if the AI squads weren't able to hurt anything, because the opponents infantry was fully mounted.

I don't think I'm gonna go reavers, it look likes a very dangerous gameplay working well with lots of assault units, otherwise it sounds suiciding to me to rush Armoured vehicles not being front transport in the ennemy's army.

Scourges are too expensive at the moment I guess, if I take 10 of them I basicall only take them from 750 to 1000

So the option remaining is : ravager ( this things costs a lot of money from GW considering how much costs a simple raider.... :// ).

I can just drop the Talos to replace it with a ravager, the thing is : I really like the Talos, but I don't see how he could have a meaningful role if he's the only one footslogging.
I could then go something like :

Archon + 4Inccubi + Venom
10 Kabalite W + Vaider
5 Trueborn + Venom
10 footlossing Kabalite W
Talos
Ravager

But I don't feel like 2 troops with only one raider would be ok at 1000 points :S, am I wrong ?

And dropping the Talos would make :

Code:

HQ :
  Archon (Shadow Field, blaster, agonizer, HWG, PGL)

Elite :
 Inccubi * 4 ( Klaivex, DemiKlaive )
 wVenom ( 2 SC )

 TrueBorns *5 ( blaster *4 )
 wVenom ( 2SC )

Troops :
 10 Kabalite Warriors ( shredder, SC )
 wRaider ( Splinter racks, Night Shield )

 10 Kabalite Warriors ( shredder, SC )
 wRaider ( Splinter racks )

Heavy support :
  Ravager ( Night Shield )

:'( my Talos
And thats means 65€ for ravager + raider T_T

would I not be short on troops at 1000points with only 2 of them ?

No advices/opinions at all ? =((

Here is another one that look quite good to me, I'm wondering if there's enough AT though, and the problem I could have would be ennemie's flyers though but .... well, can"t do much without another flyer or the Aegis stuff ( which has nothing to do with Dark Eldar, and nothing interesting to bring but money to GW .... whatever -__- ).

What do you guys think about it ? ( and the one before as well ) :

Code:

HQ :
Archon ( PGL, Shadow Field, Agonizer, HWG, Blaster, Combat Drugs )

Elite :
Inccubus*4 ( Klaivex, DemiKlaive )
Venom ( Splinter Canon )

TrueBorn*5 ( blaster*4 )
Venom ( Splinter Canon )

Troops :
Kabalite Warriors*10 ( shredder, Splinter Canon )
Raider ( Splinter racks, Night shield )

Kabalite Warriors*5 ( blaster )
Venom ( Splinter Canon )

Fast Attack :
Reaver Jetbikes*6 ( 2 HeatLance )

I have only 2 troops and a LOT of upgrades there though :S but I didnt find a quite good way to put another unit without sacrificing too much