Crashed on WAAAGH!

callofdoobie wrote:

you have to pick your charges much more carefully now.

yeah...
and i alwayse get my incubi and archon a pfp token, but my fluff army is 3k+ although i can make it a 1505 list very fast, and wyches and incu do get pfp before turn1. If i roll 6 on drugs, well...huzah, furious charge

I never took pain tokens into account in my calculations, as like you said they are not a certainty, and by no means am I saying this is the end all be all solution to overwatch. What I am saying is this is a simple yet effective way to lessen the effects of overwatch on our squishy units.

callofdoobie wrote:

Charging through another squad gives you a cover save from overwatch? I have a hard time seeing how that works, if the people you play with let you pull that off than good for you, I don't see that flying in the store I play at, and if somehow they did agree to it you would have to count it as an assault through difficult terrain.

It's 100% legal as overwatch is resolved before the models move, and is treated exactly like shooting. Units between you and your target grant a 5+ cover save. When charging you can't move through models however you can move through units as long as the gaps are big enough. There is nothing wrong with this tactics, you use units to screen models from shooting in the shooting phase, why not do the same for overwatch. No difficult terrain test needed either. Are people really going to complain because you need to THINK to use Dark Eldar?

callofdoobie wrote:

Also you would be in essence sacrificing a squad; cause whichever squad in your scenario doesn't charge is gonna get annihilated the next turn, I just don't see charging wyches at huge squads with rapid fire wpns(20 cron's, 50 guardsmen, 30 boys, etc) a viable strategy anymore.

Well nothing is stopping you charging both units into combat. the squad behind the charging unit charges getting cover saves against over watch, the squad screening then charges and doesn't get over-watched because the unit they are charging has already fired overwatch and is now engaged. I do it with 5 woman wych squads all the time, though you will need more wyches when fighting a large mob of shoota boys but against marines it works a treat. The only downside is the your screening unit will give cover to the orks against your other units shooting, but that's a small price to pay.

Mush, i know mine is a very special case, but SHOOTING INCUBI?! Ok, im just being an ars, but you get me
Yes, you gain a 5+ from OW with the screen, and pgl mods it by 1, so 4+ sweetness, so against that plasma, you get a 4+ cs.

Enfernux wrote:

Mush, i know mine is a very special case, but SHOOTING INCUBI?! Ok, im just being an ars, but you get me
Yes, you gain a 5+ from OW with the screen, and pgl mods it by 1, so 4+ sweetness, so against that plasma, you get a 4+ cs.

Man if Roc says they can shoot they can shoot! He must be Phil Kelly, no one else would defend Mandrakes that much!

Mushkilla wrote:

Enfernux wrote:

Mush, i know mine is a very special case, but SHOOTING INCUBI?! Ok, im just being an ars, but you get me
Yes, you gain a 5+ from OW with the screen, and pgl mods it by 1, so 4+ sweetness, so against that plasma, you get a 4+ cs.

Man if Roc says they can shoot they can shoot! He must be Phil Kelly, no one else would defend Mandrakes that much!

Geez, one small oversight in a rock solid argument (if I do say so myself), and people just don't let you forget it. I mean come on, they had pistols for 12 years, and have been pistol-less for two. Some old habits die hard.

As far as Phil Kelly, he wishes he was me, heheh. Can't help it if I'm right, they just don't get the love they deserve.

As far as the original issue, for most people I would suggest a Talos or Chronos. Get a multi-charge of one of those units in there, and watch the boyz run for a turn, or get stuck in CC. When they run, do it again-- or watch your opponent pour his entire shooting into trying to drop the dang thing in order to protect that big squad o'boyz. Those toughness 5 things we have can also tie them up for a decent length of time...

Though I know that won't work for the way you run your list Enf. Have you had a chance to face off against them again? If you're not up for the hard counters like reavers or coven pieces, you'll have to rely on things like Mush pointed out. Pop the tanks ASAP with dark light at a distance, tie up the lootas where possible, and just be as effective as possible when declaring charges against what footsloggers pop out. Sure, orks are tough to crack in CC, but we have the units that can do it (and allows us to stay away from the giant mass of inaccurate firepower).

Roc wrote:

Geez, one small oversight in a rock solid argument (if I do say so myself), and people just don't let you forget it. I mean come on, they had pistols for 12 years, and have been pistol-less for two. Some old habits die hard.

You've got to watch yourself with this lot, new DE players ain't no respecters of the old school.

Roc, i already use a dual list, and one half of it is already 1.7k+
if i were to make it solo:
(1)
Archon - VB, PGL, SF, drugs
haem - liqui
7incu
(2)
9wyches - heka, VB, PGL, HWG
haem - liqui
(3)
9wyches - heka, VB, PGL, HWG
haem - liqui
(4)
5warriors - blaster
(5)
razorwing - cannon, disints, ff, 4*shatter
(6)
razorwing - cannon, disints, ff, 4*shatter
(1) - raider: EAS, Tormentor, Trophy, Disint
(2) - raider: EAS, Tormentor, Trophy, Disint
(3) - raider: EAS, Tormentor, Trophy, Disint
(4) - venom: dual cannon
that is 1505 pts.

Mushkilla wrote:

Roc wrote:

Geez, one small oversight in a rock solid argument (if I do say so myself), and people just don't let you forget it. I mean come on, they had pistols for 12 years, and have been pistol-less for two. Some old habits die hard.

You've got to watch yourself with this lot, new DE players ain't no respecters of the old school.

Wonder if that's how Vect gets to feeling. On second thought, that's probably what those who vect overthrew felt just before they got Salamandered and friendly fired.

Enf, I just meant that you probably wouldn't want to take some of those slower aspects like a Talos or Chronos given the speed of the list. Really though, it looks like you should be able to vent enough firepower and have enough units capable in CC to handle that ork horde you had mentioned in the beginning. Tie up three units in cc per turn, focus fire on another, would leave the opponent with (in all likelihood) a single unit to do something with. And those razorwings look like they should be more than troublesome for your opponent.

Let us know how a re-match goes.

On a fairly unrelated note-- anyone remember that rule where you could charge a squad who got shot out of a transport with the squad that targeted the transport in the first place? Was that 4th?

Roc wrote:

On a fairly unrelated note-- anyone remember that rule where you could charge a squad who got shot out of a transport with the squad that targeted the transport in the first place? Was that 4th?

It's still there:

Quote :

However, if a transport is destroyed by a shooting attack, any unit that shot it that turn can, if allowed, charge the now disembarked passengers, BRB - page 80

It's really handy with reavers, especially since they normally explode the transport so the unit gets place where the transport originally was (when wrecked they can be placed anywhere within 3")