BR4: The Black Buzzards VS SW Long Fangs - 1000pts

I know I said I would post a 1500 point battle, unfortunately I only had time for a smaller game (RL being busy and all).

The armies:

Black Buzzards (DE)

HQ
Succubus, venom blade

TROOPS
10 wyches
Raider
9 wyches
Raider

FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, 3 cluster caltrops, arena champion, venom blade
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, 3 cluster caltrops, arena champion, venom blade


Space Wolves

HQ
Rune Priest, Power Armour (Living Lightning; Tempest’s Wrath)

TROOPS
9 grey hunters, plasma rifle, wolf standard, mark of the wolfen
Rhino
9 grey hunters, plasma rifle, wolf standard, mark of the wolfen
Rhino

FAST ATTACK
Landspeeder, heavy flamer, multimelter

HEAVY SUPPORT
6 long fangs, 5 missile launchers
6 long fangs, 5 missile launchers
6 long fangs, 5 missile launchers


The scenario:
The mission was Big Guns Never Tire (scoring long fangs!) using Vanguard Strike deployment. There would be no night fight first turn. Warlord powers: I got Strategic Genius (re-roll reserves), my opponent got Conqueror of Cities (Stealth and move through cover). I won the roll off and decided to go second. For combat drugs I got +1 attack. There were five objectives each worth three victory points.

Deployment:
The Space wolf player deployed his long fangs in three good fire points behind cover, one of them was on the top of a ruin. Two of them were on objectives. The Grey Hunters are deployed aggressively in their rhinos so that they can get into the midfield as fast as possible. Finally the Landspeeder is deployed on the flank, so that I can't take advantage of the silos to deploy my raiders out of sight.

I deploy both my raiders out of sight as best I can.



Turn 1(SW):
The Space wolf player moves his rhinos up and his landspeeder over to the silos. Not shooting as my raiders werw still out of sight.


Turn 1(DE):
I move the raider with the succubus flat out so that it gets a 4+ cover save. The other raiders moves slightly for a 5+ save.


Turn 2 (SW):
The grey hunter squad with the rune priest deploy in the forest and secure the objective. The second grey hunter squad deploys behind some barrels in midfield, the rhino moves back to give the Long Fangs some more cover. The Speeder moves back and fires at the Raider, but misses.


Turn 2 (DE):
Both reavers gangs come on, the first one kills a long fang squad down to the Sargent, the second reaver gang cuts up an entire long fang squad and earns a pain token (Maybe Caltrops are not such a bad idea after all?). One of the raiders moves flat out, the other moves towards the grey hunters in cover, the wyches disembark, shoot killing one marine and charge. Overwatch kills one wych however they make it. My succubus decides to challenge the the petty space wolf rune priest. She fails to wound him! He passes his psychic test and then successfully wounds her, she fails her save SPLAT! The grey hunters thanks to their banner (re-rolling all 1s) only take one wound from the wyches (despite their 4 attacks each) and in return kill 5! The three remaining wyches flee, however I roll a 1 and my opponent rolls a 6, they get cut down (Not looking good).


Turn 3 (SW):
The grey hunters move back towards the reavers whilst firing their weapons, the plasma gun kills one. The long fangs fire off a salvo and kill a second reaver. Despite firing off living lightning and all their weapons the grey hunters only inflicts one glancing hit on raider (the one that still has wyches in it). The Landspeeder moves up and fires it's multimelter however I pass the 4+ jink save (go jink!). One of the Rhinos moves to obstruct the raider.


Turn 3 (DE):
The smaller of the reaver gangs bladevane the single surviving long fang earning a pain token. The larger gang bladevanes the last remaining longfang squad killing them all, and gaining their second pain token. The raiders move back and fire at the speeder, imobalizing and then destroying it.


Turn 4 (SW):
The grey hunters in the open get into their rhino and move towards their brothers in an attempt to regroup. Living lightning glances the raider with the wyches (only one HP left!).


Turn 4 (DE):
The reavers blade vane the grey hunters on the objective killing them all (go caltrops go!) they both now have two pain tokens. My lances... they do nothing!



Turn 5 (SW):
The grey hunters disembark on to the objective and rapid fire and living lightning the smaller reaver squad killing four, I roll a 10 for leadership and the three surviving heatlances/caltrops run off the board. The Rhino tank shocks the larger reaver squad, I elect to death or glory with a heatlance and thankfully immobilise it.


Turn 5 (DE):
The Raiders destroy the immobilise rhino and the reavers and wyches both shoot the grey hunters and charge them, killing them all. At this point the game is called.

DE 8 (first blood, 3 dead heavies, 1 objective, kill the warlord) SW 1 (kill the warlord)



Conclusion

Wyches are still squishy, transports inflicting S4 hits when they explode really pushes you to get them in combat (for better or worse). Cluster caltrops although expensive increase the damage of reavers bladevane attacks by about 50% which is great for killing marines not to mention it makes it a lot easier to get pain tokens. I'm not really happy with this list, but I am impressed with caltrops (though they still have limited use against mechanised armies). And as per usual I still can't seem to keep my warlord alive.


Hope you enjoyed the report!

Enjoyed your battle report as you tend to run the lists that I can only think about but would never try - so it has been fun to read your exploits.

I do not have much experience at 1,000 points but you seem to be doing just fine with 2 troop choices and a single HQ (despite you losing your HQ every game).

I'd be curious on your thoughts of the Haemy versus the Succ - both are quite fragile but which gives you a sense of hope? The Succubus is not very well protected and even the venom blade is going to require some luck, how many hits did you score against the Rune Priest anyway?

Wyches versus Wracks, of course the wyches are more in theme with the Succ but wonder if you gave the Wracks as many bodies as you did wyches if you would have a different opinion?

Reavers, you typically ran them the way I would have too with using the caltrops more than the lances and avoiding close combat (not really avoiding it but not really looking for an opportunity either). Do you think the Arena Champion is really necessary? I often find the additional leadership is usually not helping much as when I fail leadership, I really fail it beyond leadership 9.

So which of the lists do you feel you like? The haemy + wracks or the Succ + wyches? I would like to see you try the Haemy + Wracks in the future but without the WWP. Granted, when you are done trying the wyches of course. Thinking about warriors at all?

Thanks, I always appreciate your feedback (you seem to ask all the right questions!).

The reason I'm keeping things at 1000 points is mainly due to time but also to work out what I want to do with the rest of the army. I have sort of set a rough guide line of one gang of reavers for every 500 points. This is handy as it gives me a bit more room to explore what troop choices I want.

The succubus is an odd one, I'm starting to think I should run her with an agoniser, it's the closest thing to a hekatrix with ablative wounds as you can get in 6th ed (squad leaders get singled out too easily). Out of six attacks she got 2 hits, two wounds and he passed one save and re-rolled the 1. The Haemy is interesting as pain tokens are great (and it means I can add a utility portal when I scale up to 1500).

Two things I'm toying around with at the moment is which troops? And which transports?

Wracks seem to be becoming a more appealing choice, as wyches just seem to get slaughtered left right and centre (agonisers and wych weapons not being safe is a huge problem). Liquefiers are great against most things, and wracks are not bad in combat either, wounding on 4s and with what is effectively a 5+ invuln, no grenades but that's what the liquefier is for.

As for raiders or venoms, only running two squads of reavers, means I feel like I'm lacking AT, the raiders lances really help out, on the other hand raiders are huge and pretty hard to hide when compared to venoms. If I were to go wracks then I would probably opt for raiders as I would need more AT. Wyches with haywire in venoms are nice, however they won't do much in assault, and fall over to a stiff breeze. I think If I go for venoms, the good old warrior blaster venoms might be my best option.

Caltrops are great, they just feel like a bit of a waste when the enemy is meched up, they are not cheap either. That being said if I start using raiders I will have some dark light to pop some transports before the reavers come in. Caltrops are great for getting pain tokens on the turn the reavers arrive. As for the champion, LD9 is nice and venom blades are cheap for the flexibility they bring, Being able to explode a transport and assault the remains is a great option to have. Assault also becomes a better option the more pain tokens you accumulate. Finally the venom blade is a nice defensive option against getting tied down/assaulted by chaff units etc.

Another good report, thanks. I think I prefer the list with the wracks and portal haemi though.

Thanks for another great report!

Mushkilla wrote:

Wracks seem to be becoming a more appealing choice, as wyches just seem to get slaughtered left right and centre (agonisers and wych weapons not being safe is a huge problem). Liquefiers are great against most things, and wracks are not bad in combat either, wounding on 4s and with what is effectively a 5+ invuln, no grenades but that's what the liquefier is for.

You do know that Wracks have poisoned weapons and therefore reroll to-wound against T4 and lower, right? I second Grumpy Kwi's suggestion of trying Wracks in larger quantities, at 1000 pts this could be 9 in a Raider with 1 Liqufier Gun and the mandatory Haemon. This means about 30 attacks on the charge, S5 due to Furious Charge and rerolling to-wound against T5 and below. Their T4 also means they'll survive a crashing Raider and still be a threat.

Setomidor wrote:

You do know that Wracks have poisoned weapons and therefore reroll to-wound against T4 and lower, right? I second Grumpy Kwi's suggestion of trying Wracks in larger quantities, at 1000 pts this could be 9 in a Raider with 1 Liqufier Gun and the mandatory Haemon. This means about 30 attacks on the charge, S5 due to Furious Charge and rerolling to-wound against T5 and below. Their T4 also means they'll survive a crashing Raider and still be a threat.

Wracks are S3, so no re-rolling against T4 unless you have a second pain token and furious charge (s4 with furious charge). The one problem I see with wracks is they don't have fleet (anything without fleet this edition can't charge reliably). I will give them a go after I'm done experimenting with wyches as they do survive crashing and overwatch better.

Damn, you're right of course! I was so sure they where S4 as well as T4,

Edit: a question; do you find 3 heat lances per squad necessary or would 2 suffice?

Awesome stuff man. *Starts buying some reavers online*

Have you thought about Sliscus to manipulate your Drug roll a bit? It can be very important for your Reavers.

Thanks for the kind words.

tlronin wrote:

Have you thought about Sliscus to manipulate your Drug roll a bit? It can be very important for your Reavers.

I have, but I haven't really worked out what troops I want to use. I also always find it hard to fit the Duke into a list as he does so much (having to start with warriors to get the most out of poison, needing lots of drug units to get the most out of drugs etc). Also I don't think the reavers see combat enough for it to be worth investing in the Duke. Again it all depends what core troop choices I end up going for. I still need some practice getting the most out of reavers in the assault phase (what units to support them with etc).

True. Sliscus dictates your entire list. You'll have to make a Sliscus list. and you're not gay for Sliscus, you're gay for Reavers.

I have a thing for Grotesques too.

Haha. Get freaky why don't yah!

Mushkilla; I only had a thing for Grotesques before reading your battle reports, now I've added Reaver-addiction to my personal traits as well.

I've actually just done a 1000 pts army with a bit of both, inspired by your lists but swapping one of the Reaver units for some Grots instead;

Haemo and 4 Grots in Raider
5 Wracks in Venom
5 Warriors in Venom
9 Reavers
Ravager

(each unit kitted out with special weapons and other treats)

Nice list, I was thinking about doing something like that. In other game I have been running:

Haemy, liquifier, power axe
4 Grotesks, aberration, flesh gauntlet, liquifier
Raider, aethersail

Two liquifiers make them pretty nasty at both close range shooting or if they get charged. The haemy provides wound allocation shenanigans, furious charge, an extra liquifier and a S5 power axe on the charge. The aberration prevents the haemy from getting challenged and will tare most things up with 6 S6 instant death 2+ re-roll to wound hits on the charge (thanks to the new changes to poison). The aethersail means you can get in your opponents face, they can either waste their shooting on you (4+ cover save), or assault you (liquifiers on over watch), even if they do destroy the transport the explosion isn't that scary with T5 and 5+ FNP. Really fun unit that really dishes out the pain now that the haemy with power axe can't be singled out any more. Running a sccubus isn't a bad idea either as it gives the unit I8 for sweeping advance (both running away and chasing).

That is almost exactly the same unit as I'm currently running, only difference is that I've also included a Mindphase Gauntlet on the Haemy (I had the extra points), giving me the option to chose between using the Powerweapon or the Gauntlet depending on what I'm up against.

Setomidor wrote:

That is almost exactly the same unit as I'm currently running, only difference is that I've also included a Mindphase Gauntlet on the Haemy (I had the extra points), giving me the option to chose between using the Powerweapon or the Gauntlet depending on what I'm up against.

Hmm, I never tried the mind phase Gauntlet, it only works on characters and MCs, do you get much use out of it?

Haven't had the chance to try it out yet, but with the MC's now all having Smash attacks that ID Grots, I think it can find it's uses defensively

Setomidor wrote:

Haven't had the chance to try it out yet, but with the MC's now all having Smash attacks that ID Grots, I think it can find it's uses defensively

Thought that would be the case, forgot about S10 smash attacks, it might even be worth taking an ancient to get I5 just to tie down those big gribblies before they get to swing. I tend to just count on the flesh gauntlet killing the MC before it can swing (and I shoot anything that is I4 or above). It's a shame that furious charge no longer confers +1I.

Yeah the Ancient upgrade is actually quite appealing, I can even fit it into the 1000 pts list by dropping a few Wracks and their Liq gun. I'm not sure what the average I of monstrous creatures is, but our very own Talos would be able to take quite a lot of Grots down with him (striking at I4).

Hello all,
First off, great job on your win streak thus far. If I may throw in my two pain tokens into the homunculus vs succubus debate. You can't go wrong either way, they are both awesome HQ choices, but there is one option for the succubus that hasn't been explored yet: Razorflails. The ability to re-roll BOTH to-hit AND to-wound should not be underestimated. The trick to wyches is not in outright kill power like a terminator with a power fist, but in wound saturation. A succubus with flails on the charge (not counting drugs) is looking at 6 attacks (re-roll able) and likely 4-6 wounds (re-roll able). If she is in a squad of wyches/bloodbrides that are similarly armed then you are looking at a LOT of forced saves. It's what I do in smaller games when I' can't afford my archon.

Another trick is to seperate the succubus from the squad before you assautl. this give you the chance to throw 2 plasma grenades before you assault, thinning out the victim to reduce damage from overwatch. Also, after seperation, hit with the squad first to soak up overwatch hits, then attack with the succubus. a unit can only overwatch once so the succubus will dance in unmolested and proceed to wreck face. This works for me anyway. Give it a try for a game or two and see how it works

Also, if you are using wracks/haemy /wwp then I STRONGLY recommend you take the Chronos. s4 ap3 monsterout creature is only 80 points stock, fully upgraded it's only 110 points and helps spread the pain tokens. a coven/wych hybrid list with wwp and a chronos can be quite nasty on the battlefield. Just something to think about.

Vaxian wrote:

Hello all,
First off, great job on your win streak thus far.

Hi and thanks!

Vaxian wrote:

But there is one option for the succubus that hasn't been explored yet: Razorflails.

Re-rolling to hit is great but wounding on 5+ is a nightmare even with re-rolling to wound. At half the cost I generally prefer the venom blade (using a similar principle of torrenting wounds). Still an interesting idea.

Vaxian wrote:

Another trick is to seperate the succubus from the squad before you assautl. this give you the chance to throw 2 plasma grenades before you assault, thinning out the victim to reduce damage from overwatch. Also, after seperation, hit with the squad first to soak up overwatch hits, then attack with the succubus. a unit can only overwatch once so the succubus will dance in unmolested and proceed to wreck face. This works for me anyway. Give it a try for a game or two and see how it works

Yeah, this is a great tactic I used it in my battle report against Tau, it's really handy at times, though it can leave your succubus vulnerable in assault (no look out sir, models in base contact with her having to attack her) good positioning can get around this. It can also leave her vulnerable to shooting if combat ends on your opponents turn. Either way its a great tactic for protecting your succubus once your wych squad gets dwindled down to 2-3 models (i.e most of the time).

Vaxian wrote:

Also, if you are using wracks/haemy /wwp then I STRONGLY recommend you take the Chronos. s4 ap3 monsterout creature is only 80 points stock, fully upgraded it's only 110 points and helps spread the pain tokens. a coven/wych hybrid list with wwp and a chronos can be quite nasty on the battlefield. Just something to think about.

I was actually considering a list with a cronos, using foot wyches. The main problem in the current list is that it can't keep up with the rest of army even with a portal. However I am going to experiment with them at some point.

Thanks for all the feedback/advice!

Would you ever consider CWEldar Allies in larger games?

Farseer casting Doom over a target, followed by 9d3 Bladevane hits
Runes of Warding would give you powerful psychic defense too.

The troops can be something like 3 man ranger teams, or a jetbike squad for a mounted farseer.

Man, when CWE finally get an updated codex I'm sure they'll have some troop jetbikes worthy of supporting the DE.

OgreBattle wrote:

Would you ever consider CWEldar Allies in larger games?

Farseer casting Doom over a target, followed by 9d3 Bladevane hits
Runes of Warding would give you powerful psychic defense too.

The troops can be something like 3 man ranger teams, or a jetbike squad for a mounted farseer.

Man, when CWE finally get an updated codex I'm sure they'll have some troop jetbikes worthy of supporting the DE.

In my earlier reports (the more reserve based list) I was considering Eldar for an autarch and the +1 to reserves. However I have changed to a more aggressive on the board approach (only using reserves when I can't find enough cover). But yes a mounted farseer with doom would be hilarious, would make them pretty nasty in assault too. Scoring jet-bikes are nice too.

To answer your question, yes I am considering CWEldar allies.

If anything If you flip it around and run CWEldar as the main list DE would make a great allied detachment:

HQ
Haemonculus

TROOPS
5 wyches, haywire
Venom, splinter cannon.

FAST ATTACK
9 reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion with wither venom blade or agoniser (for doom)

This gives CWEldar some nice haywire anti tank and a great unit to run a doom farseer with.

EDIT: I'll cry when doom ends up on a random chart like the rule book powers.