Razorwings Never Tire?

Quick question regarding the Big Guns....mission where Heavy Support vehicles may claim objectives.

Does this apply to flyers too or are they too far off the ground to be within 3"?

Fliers are never scoring or denial units, not even for things like Linebreaker. They can't claim objectives. Unfortunately, they still give an extra VP if destroyed on Big Guns Never Tire!

EDIT: As noted below, this is wrong.

Where does it say they are not scoring or denial even in BGNT?

Doesn't BGNT specifically say that vehicles count as scoring/denial units as long as they are from your Heavy Support slots?

I found no rule that said that fliers can't score, even if they qualified to do so otherwise. The only two rules I found are that normally only Troop choices score and that vehicles normally can't score, even if they qualify, by being Troop choices for example.
But the heavy metal special rule explicitly overrides those rules, so it should be possible for fliers to score in the big guns never tire scenario.

However, because of bad rule writing, vehicles can never contests (and the heavy metal rule only makes them scoring). So you could have a troop choice next to your opponents vehicle and contest it as well as scoring the objective. Or you could have two vehicles next to an objective (one from each side) and they would both score the objective. Madness...

Flyers can score and contest in big guns never tire... there is nothing against it. And remember everything is measured from the base except when trying to shoot the gun. So the height doesnt effect it

While I think almost all will agree, that it is meant to says that, it's not in the rules.
Scoring units and denial units are two different classes and being a scoring unit doesn't encompass being a denial unit. And while in all standard missions almost all units are denial units, vehicles are not and this limitation is never retracted.

The flight stand is another thing. The flyer rules tell us that:

BRB p.80 wrote:

The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:

• The Flyer is being assaulted, in which case models may move into contact with the vehicle's hull, its base or both.
  
  
• Models are embarking or disembarking from the Flyer, in which case the base of the Flyer is used as the Access Point.

There is (oddly enough) another case in the next paragraph, when we are told, that models may move underneath the Flyer, but have to stay away at least 1" from the base, but in all other instances ranges should be measured from the Flyers hull.

Is very clearly steted in misión rules that Vehicles DO SCORE, if they are taken from the heavy slot. So, yes Razorwings and Voidrevens can control objectives.

Question here, is as per rules, you have to put the flyer’s hull at 3 UM from objective to do so…. because, as cleverly pointed by Tiri rana, flyer’s base is almost always ignored. I’m not sure, but I think the flight stand of the Razorwing holds it more than 3 UM from the ground, so is possible that we have a scoring unit that cannot effectively score….

Ah, it seems that I am incorrect. My mistake!

Darkos wrote:

II think the flight stand of the Razorwing holds it more than 3 UM from the ground, so is possible that we have a scoring unit that cannot effectively score….

Do objectives have to be on ground level? What if it's on top of a building? Then the Razorwing hull could be within 3".

Of course, objectives in higher ground could be easier to catch. But a clever opponent would try to put them as far of your reach as possible.

Also, you can model your Razorwing on a low stand, and fluff it as flying “under the radar range”…

A terrain capturing flyer... Now that would be the very first in history. You can shoot everything to hell with an airforce but if you want to contest anything you would need a land army - imho.

And yes yes the rules may say otherwise... Not the first time I would frown.

I know. But warhammer is almost never about common sense. Is like being able to shoot your 5 man squad from the full board length, across a forest and a ruined building, if I manage to draw a line between all branches and through a window, even if I’m able to see just an arm. (go, go true LOS!)

But thinking a bit on the subject, it could be tricky to place a flyer correctly to control/contest an objective. You are forced to move no less than 18”, in straight line, and allowed just a 90º turn. It would require some planning to not get too far and find the correct facing.

Darkos wrote:

I know. But warhammer is almost never about common sense. Is like being able to shoot your 5 man squad from the full board length, across a forest and a ruined building, if I manage to draw a line between all branches and through a window, even if I’m able to see just an arm. (go, go true LOS!)

remember though, your only be able to kill that one guy... so its not that all unrealistic...

Yes, they fixed it a bit in 6th. But I have so many games, where a single visible arm allowed my wyches/warriors squad to be fully blown away still fresh in my memory… sigh!
But I’m going away from the topic…

Well, DE already want tall terrain due to the height of their Raiders & Ravagers. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to find a spot for one of the objectives that the Razorwing can reach. A hill or a building with battlements would do fine. If you wanted to be a little cheeky, you could even stick an objective up in a tree. lol

Perhaps the non-denial "bad rules writing" is how GW decided to design what Chaeril is talking of about needing ground army elements.