The Blaster Archon

I have recently started running an archon with shadow field as my Warlord as I find out of all our HQ choices he is the most survivable and as a result least likely to give away a victory point.

This is what I normally run:

Archon, shadow field, venom blade - 95pts

I was considering adding a blaster for a bit more duality, although it means sacrificing an attack in CC.

Archon, shadow field, venom blade, blaster - 110pts

What are peoples thoughts on this? (My current army list is in my latest battle report linked in my signature, I plan on dropping the night shields)

Thanks,

I've always had reservations using this configuration. Losing the loss of an attack brings down the effectiveness of the VB a bit which relies on volume armor save rolls to be effective. You do get a blaster that basically doesn't miss for 30-some-odd points less than a unit of 3 blasterborn in a venom, or 5pts more than a Ravager. You do gain some versatility with a reliable shooting attack, though I think that useful utility would vary depending on what kind of unit your archon was paired with.

That being said, I'm admittedly stuck in a 3rd edition mindset as a longtime DE player of using the Archon exclusively as a CC beat stick

Hey Mushkilla, first off let me say I love reading your battle reports and it's nice to see Battle Chronicler being used on a 40k forum (we use them for Fantasy all the time).

Regarding the blaster I am torn when considering your list. The Archon obviously joins one of the Wych units and I can't help but think that if you want to go this route you should use a blast pistol instead. Seeing as you'll be within pistol range most of the time anyway due to your assault minded (though not wholly so) army I would think that the blast pistol provides the same benefit for cheaper. Do you find yourself wishing you had a darklight weapon? From personal experience in both real world and the table top realm I have found that too much "duality" results in poor combat performance as opposed to when things are allowed to "focus fire" as it were.

AE

P.S. Besides the duality question is there another reason you think you need a blaster?

edit: beaten by ESE. Man he's fast!

well, since i am more and more in the larger points games, i tailored my lists as of today, and am using more and more balanced elements, so my current archon for my 3.5-4k list is:
dual blast pistols, djinn blade, soul trap, drugs, pgl, sf, giving me 6+2 attacks on the charge, dual s8 ap2 assault shots, 2up invul to be starting the beating on the opponent.
My other build is vb, soul trap, drugs, pgl, sf, huskblade.

yep, all are expensive builds, but at large points games, its good to have'em
i have also found a lot of sense in grots and master haems, even wwp, for a full tac squad in rapid range on average kills 1-2 grots - and from 10+archon+master haem...thats not much...seriously, thats 36 wounds to chew through and 33 of them are even hard to instagib.

AiEthimar wrote:

The Archon obviously joins one of the Wych units and I can't help but think that if you want to go this route you should use a blast pistol instead.

I agree with this completely.

Enfernux wrote:

dual blast pistols

This sounds like so much fun. This would also make a badass model.

@ Enerfux; can you fire two blast pistols using an Archon? I know you can equip them as such, but I am under the impression that you can only shoot one weapon per turn... He's not a vehicle after all. If possible I would appreciate a pg. reference if you can as I am at work right now. I hope this doesn't hijack things.

AE

@AiEthimar - Page 52, Gunslinger. Short answer - yeah, you can shoot both.

@Mushkilla - the functionality of the Blaster very much depends on the unit you are joining him to. With the new assault rules you are more likely to take some potshots at a foe prior to charging, and that does generally translate to a better attack than a +1 Venom Blade swing (since initiative 'first' and AP 2 is pretty sweet compared to a Venom Blade)

However, if the unit in question tends to get off an assault, then get chewed up by enemy shooting, you are not making functional use of the points, and I'd invest them elsewhere.

@ Thor; Thanks that is good to know I will read further into that when I get home.

@ Mushkilla; Thor makes a good point that if the Archon's unit gets assaulted then the blaster becomes a burden. However it could be nice using Enerfux's idea with the two blast pistols that you fire both if they get assaulted and due to the Archon's high BS you get to reroll. That raises an interesting question-if I miss the overwatch shot with my Archon do I reroll using the BS reroll table or only on 6's still? That could be a fun little rule shenanigan.

AE

@AE no, because overwatch is on bs1, not your own so you only hit on a 6

@ Enerfux, that's right I forgot it affects BS and not just a roll requirement.

AE

Sorry everyone I should have put a bit more reasoning/background behind my first post.

My army accidentally ended up being based around duality: reavers have it in spades, and wyches this edition seem to be more reliable AT then warriors. So everything in my army can take on armour or infantry.

Why am I considering the blaster archon? Well despite him running with wyches, said wyches don't always end up in combat, for example my last game against GK they ended up going to ground on an objective most of the game. At that moment I was thinking, if I had a blaster archon he could leave the wyches and try to take out a razorback or two with his blaster.

So I started looking into the blaster and what it could bring to the table: for a start Xpts for a B7 lance is very cheap. Then there are the advantages that Thor mentioned, with the changes in 6th and always being able to get a blaster shot off before CC. The other advantage worth considering is that it gives a wych squad the ability to destroy a transport and assault the insides (1 haywire grenade and a blaster shot). In short some interesting flexibility.

As for blast pistols they don't really appeal to me for the same price as a blaster you only get 6" range, if it was increased to 9" I would consider them. However as it stands 6" is too much of a liability considering with fleet I find myself often charging from 7-9" away. Two blast pistols means you can't take the venom blade (I believe).

That being said as mentioned by ESE venom blades do work on volume of attacks, and loosing 1 attack is a big deal.

I hope that makes my reasoning a bit clearer.

Mush, with 2 BP and djninn blade, you get 6+2 attacks, not losing any, more like gaining.
On the distance, yeah, its a hard thing, but dont tel me you cant imagine a gunslinger Archon in a lower-race skin long leather jacket and a skin-western hat, shooting off hiz blaztaz and then goin alahu agbar on the enemy? XD
And if hes acompanied by footing grots and a haem ancient, he will get to you. 2 blaster shots, 2 liquifires and 2 fleshgauntlets with djinnblades 36 wounds...that is a mean munch of meat to chew :S

Enfernux wrote:

Mush, with 2 BP and djninn blade, you get 6+2 attacks, not losing any, more like gaining.

Yeah, as cool as it is it's a lot of points (and I'm stingy when it comes to points ).

Mush, you are right that a lot of your army is built around duality, but as you said they have duality up the wazoo. This is where "quantity has a quality all it's own" is certainly applicable. You are right concerning the short range of the blast pistol I always think that it has the range of a regular splinter pistol and thus always makes sense to me until I get re-awakened to the reality of it's 6" range. On the duality note though, as you said you have lots of duality I just don't know if the Archon with blaster has enough to match the rest. I use one with my army because I run him with 4 Incubi and it's nice to have that near guaranteed instakill on a unit before wading in klaives spinning. I think it'd be a fun gizmo that should be worth a shot at least.

AE

The blaster Archon is a nice, well-rounded option. If I take an Archon, it is with a Blaster. I originally modelled him that way, and haven't needed to change it yet. He tends to look something like this:

Archon: venom blade, blaster, shadow field
7 Trueborn: 7 shardcarbines, 7 haywire grenades
Raider: night shield, splinter racks
316 pts

At slightly larger games (2-2.5k), I add two more Trueborn, replace the venom blade with a power halberd and combat drugs, and remove the haywire grenades since I can afford 1 or 2 other tankhunting squads.

I will say this though: If you are looking for the Warlord that is least likely to give up a victory point, he will be Urien Rakarth. Drop him into a small squad of Incubi or Grotesques so he can save until he takes a wound, and then Look Out, Sir! the extra wounds onto the other models. Then just regain the wound, wash and repeat. He's even better in close combat, due to how this interacts with the clone field.

on urien, i think he uses a flesh gauntlet that wounds on a 3up. T5 multi wounds and 10 gorts...my gawd :S

Krovin-Rezh wrote:

Archon: venom blade, blaster, shadow field
7 Trueborn: 7 shardcarbines, 7 haywire grenades
Raider: night shield, splinter racks
316 pts

Oh how i Love the Blaster Born Lord! A Good way to activate your little Soul trap bevor CC. But you have an error in your squad. The splinter racks dont work for shardcarbines. But other than that i like your Unit.

CI is spot on the racks thing, only rifles and pistols are affected sadly.
And the problem with soultrap is that it is hard to fill up good, because most armies have 1 IC, and they are usually very hard to kill and are surrounded by other stuff that make them very killy. Ex: GK libra in termi w termies. Or better yet, draigo with his troop dins -.-
Or say a warboss with nobs in eavy armor, SW wolflord on thunderwolf - or wutzitcalled ^^ - surrounded by wolfriders with hammers and shields.

@Mushkilla: I used to use a Blaster Archon in a Wych squad, though I usually gave him a power weapon, typically a Djin Blade. I wrote a post about it here, though I caught a bit of flak for it at the time. The math is even still correct post-6th Ed. update.

Your main goal is a survivable HQ that can do work while staying at range? You may want Duke Sliscus. For 50 points over the cheap Archon build, you get to control combat drugs for your entire army. It's terrific. Beyond that, his blade far outclasses the venom blade, he has drugs himself, and so can give his squad Furious Charge to begin with, and he has a pistol too. He doesnt do anything superbly, but he has a little bit of everything. Dual purpose enough for you?

I have been putting off the duke for a long time!

Thanks for all the replies. This thread has made me consider something very different to a blaster archon.

My original premiss for the archon was for a survivable HQ choice. There is another way to create a survivable HQ, and that's running any of our HQs with Grotesques. I think I might experiment with:

Succubus, venom blade, haywire
Succubus, venom blade, haywire
4 Grotesques, aberration, venom blade
Raider, sail
370pts

18 venom blade attacks, 18 T5 wounds.

Mushkilla wrote:

Succubus, venom blade, haywire
Succubus, venom blade, haywire
4 Grotesques, aberration, venom blade
Raider, sail
370pts

18 venom blade attacks, 18 T5 wounds.

I think that that is a brutally effective unit. I also just go for the VB on the Aberation and have found it to be VERY effective. Can't wait to see that unit in one of your reports

My list is actually up in the air right now. I have one with the duke, one with hellions, one with grots, and one with 60pts of troops. Hmmm what to do? Lots of things to be tested!

how about a powersword with the Archon ?I am thinking of running one with mine.

If you are ok with AP3 go the agoniser... The S3 hurts the sword