New all comers 1500

Ok, so I've been playing more lately and fine tuning my list. Along with reading and theorizing, I think I've come up with a new, stronger list. I'd love to hear C&C.

HQ:

Duke
Haem
LQ, VB, pistol

Elite:

4x blasterborn
Venom 2x SC

Troops:

10x Warriors
1x SC
Raider, dissie, racks

2x 5x Wyches HWG
Hek, PGL, VB
Venom 2x SC

5x Wracks
LQ
Acothyst, VB
Raider, DL

FA:

9x Reavers
2x HL, 1 Blaster
2x caltrops

Heavy:

Ravager
Dissie, NS

Ravager
DL, NS

1500 on the nose.

The idea is that the Haem starts out with the wracks so they can have FC, Duke starts with warriors next to their Raider. He jumps ship over to the wrack boat, warriors take off in theirs. The wrack Raider can drop them off where they need to go and scoot off to play AT. The presence of the Haem and Acothyst along with the Duke provides some survivability and LOS options. Everyone else pretty much does what they normally do. Shooty guys shoot, CC guys smack or go to ground on objectives in cover. Everyone can be delivered to target quickly and safely, with lots of cover providing games available from the Reavers. I have movement range, lots of 2+ and 3+ poison (along with tons of venom shots), drug rerolls with lots of models who love the drugs, many threats for target saturation, and fairly evenly balanced AT and AI (reavers are positioned to be equally strong in either role).

What do you think?

Hey Tony! This looks like a really interesting list. However if I may make a couple of comments. I would keep all the same weapon type on the Reaver squad. So 3xHL or 3xB. Otherwise you've got guns that work at different ranges and require different placement and overall strategy to play effectively. A unit of 9 Reavers deals a lot of damage bladevaning without the CCs so I'd drop these and use the 40 points elsewhere. You really want to be bladevaning all the time to justify the expense of CC.

My second point is that I'd probably keep both Ravagers with 3xDL. If one goes down that's your only reliable long range AT. Having an exact copy as a backup will be handy. Most people seem to take 3 Ravagers w/DLs at 1,500pts so you certainly don't want to have just 1.

Thanks for the reply, Mug!

I had the same thought about the weapon differences on the Reavers. My thought, though, was that the Blaster doesn't lose effectiveness at HL range, but does give me the ability to get at least one shot off if I can't quite get within HL range safely. And at Blaster range, the HLs can still be a stronger shot than the standard rifle. In this case I would be using Reaver mobility to position myself for shots on characters or MCs that I wanted to target with higher S and lower AP, not necessarily vehicles.

I didn't really have anywhere I badly needed 40 points, so I put the CCs on for opportunistic moves, such as if I find myself playing against footslogging armies where I do spend the whole game bladevaning or if I find that I want to be Turboing out of a bad scene, why not have the CCs in there to chew up some infantry on my way out. A little parting gift for my enemies, you could say Is there somewhere that you would recommend I reallocate the 40 points? I suppose I could put in a few more wracks.

I definitely see where you're coming from on the Ravagers. That was another difficult decision. I've gotten caught playing against vehicle free or virtually vehicle free armies a few times, and have really regretted taking an excess of DLs (though managed to pull out the win anyway...undefeated thus far! ) I magnetized my Ravager weapons, so I can always adjust if I know that I'm going to be facing a tank heavy army. I've yet to graduate to the tournament scene, so I'm not in a position to have to submit a rock solid unchangable list before the event. Maybe I'll try it both ways and report back.

Anyone else have anything to say about my idea? As lord of the Reavers, I'd love C&C from Mushkilla. I have toyed with the idea of dropping the blasterborn for more Reavers, but that will cost me a vanom and I'm not sure that'll be worth it.

Hey man, you're welcome.

I think 3 more Wracks and NS on the Warrior's Raider would be worth losing the CC for. It'll make those two units more survivable and won't limit the functionality or effectiveness of the Reavers much at all. As for the Blaster/HL I see where you're coming from but I think it's far better to tailor to a certain style of play. Also I like having duplicates of weapons just so I can roll lots of dice to ensure the average outcome. It'll be interesting to hear what mushkilla thinks on the Reaver's weapon load out. As for the Ravagers, I think you'll be far more frightened of facing a parking lot with only 1 DL Ravager than facing a horde with 'only' two DL Ravagers. Besides, most armies without many vehicles still have high armour or toughness things that die due to dark light fire. I hope play testing goes well. Congrats on the win streak.

To answer the questions on the reaver load out. I have considered mixed weapons. The only mixed weapon load out that has any chance of being viable would be two blasters to one heatlance, as you mentioned. As two blasters can at least do something from range, any less and it's not worth it.

That being said you take blaster for the defensive advantage of range and keeping your distance, heat lances have a different defensive quality and that is disabling/destroying what they shoot.

Think of it this way, both load outs take 2 turns to destroy something. With blasters this means shooting something for two turns whilst dancing in and out of range. With heatlances this means turbo-boosting for a 3+ cover save and getting into position, and then shooting something next turn and destroying it.

Effectively leading to two very different play styles. I find mixing the weapons causes too much of a clash, as your will become a jack of trades and master of none. That being said, give it a go and see how it works out, there isn't one right way of playing. I don't like telling people how to play, I just share my experiences.

For curiosity I bashed out some simulations for the chance of wrecking/exploding (you can compare them to them to the numbers in this thread):

2 blasters, 1 heat lance

outside melta range
AV12,13,14: 15.13%
AV11: 27.60%
AV10: 39.79%

inside melta range
AV12,13,14: 33.23%
AV11: 44.16%
AV10: 53.96%

Hope that helps.

Thanks, Mushkilla. I'm going to drop the blaster in favor of the HL. Keeping the CCs though. I just like them too much, both for the fluff and for the effectiveness. If I'm going to be turbo boosting anyway...

I'll report back after I see some action with this list.

Edit: Well, got to play with this list vs Necrons. I won, but the game didn't play out quite the way I thought it would. The Duke was great, but not the world eater I thought he was. The splinter bonus was lovely, but my dice decided to be snarky and come up 4+ the vast majority of the time, rendering the 3+ worthless. The wracks were squishier than I thought. Yeah. I did use the CC, and to good effect, but like the Duke I don't think they were a game changer. So, I think this will be the new list for next Saturday's game.

Archon
SF, VB, pistol

Haem
VB, LQ, cc weapon

4x Incubi
Venom, SC

4x Blasterborn
Venom, SC

10x Warriors
SC
Raider
Dissie, Racks

3x Wracks

9x Wyches
HWG
Hek - PGL, VB
Raider
Dissie

5x Wyches
HWG
Hek - PGL, VB
Venom
SC

9x Reavers
3x HL

2x Ravagers
NS, 3x DL

Obviously the Archon loads out with the Incubi, Haem goes with the 9 Wych squad. I didn't have the points to put the PGL on the Archon, but with his built in Plasma grenades, I didn't figure it would be that important. Worst comes to worst, I'll use the Reaver squad to provide their assault cover. I don't have any intention of my Reavers seeing close combat anyway. The Haem is there for 4 reasons alone. Pain token, one or two rounds of liquifire, prevention from falling back horribly if numbers drop below 25%, and overwatch screening (he'll charge first, shielding wyches from overwatch and allowing them to use their Fleet). If he survives the combat and can put some hurt on another unit, wonderful! If not, I didn't expect him to anyway. The wracks are simply there to plop onto an objective in cover and go to ground whenever anyone looks at them funny (ideally in ruins or a crater) in my end and build a campfire. Sing some songs about bathing in blood on the old range. Whatever wracks do when left alone. Weirdos.

Ooh, maybe the Archon could start with the wracks and take their token with him to the Incubi. If the Venom is parked next to the wrack camp I wouldn't lose any turn one movement, and since the wracks are just there to go to ground they don't really need their token in the first place. If anyone gets to them in my end, I've done something wrong anyway. FNP will mean a whole lot more to the Incubi + Archon squad than the wracks for sure!

Everything else is pretty self explanatory. They do what they do.

So what do you think? Is this more or less viable than my last list as an all comers effort?

Please dont double post. If you want to add any infomation, please use the edit button -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-

Yes I like this list a lot. I'm not sure how effective the Wracks will be. The 30pts could be spent on a PGL for the Lord and a Klaivex without any wargear just to answer challenges you don't want to take with the lord. See how they play out though.