Footslogging the Duke with a large unit of Warriors. Effective?

It occurred to me that a unit of 20 warriors with 2 SCs is a modest 200pts. This could be a great way to wander around with the Duke and make use of twice as many splinter shots as you'd get in a Raider. Here are some pros and cons to the unit. Has any tried this? Do we think it's viable?

Pros:
Firepower. In rapid fire range we have 48 (3+) poison shots. That's a hell of a lot of fire power and a nasty OW volley. Up to 24" away we have an impressive 30 shots.
Objective taking. The unit can move up the field and sit on an objective in cover posing quite an obstacle for the enemy.
Slower than the rest of the army. This can be a pro in the sense that the unit has a good change of being ignored in the early game while the rest of the army races up the field to harass the enemy and be in their face. Having no transport doesn't mean the unit can lose several men from one penetrating hit to the vehicle.
Large unit. It has to take 5 casualties to take a leadership test.
CC potential. The Duke is great in CC and the unit's sheer weight of numbers will mean it can do some damage in CC if it's charged. Hopefully OW will have thinned the enemy's ranks.
A 1/3 chance for the unit to have FNP from the Duke's CDs. This will greatly improve the survivability of the unit. For 30pts the unit can have FNP anyway if you purchase 3 Wracks and have the Baron steal their PT.
All the bonuses of having the Duke apply such as the tactical advantage of having 2 rolls on the CD table and fitting the result to the rest of your list and the opponent you're facing.

Cons:
At 350pts for the unit (380 with the 3 wracks for the PT) it's not exactly cheap.
Very susceptible to flamers. Any DS unit kitted with flamers could mince this unit in a volley. All the more reason to ensure they have FNP.
Susceptible to blasts. Being such a large unit they can suffer lots of wounds from Blast maker volleys. Particularly from flyers coming in T2.
Footslogging. This is ultimately a con as well. The unit can't redeploy quickly and loses all the tactical benefits of having a transport. Not keeping up with the rest of the army could mean the unit is likely to get stranded and forced to face enemies without support.
Very large. It can be potentially quite difficult to get them all into cover so the unit can lose men to focused fire.
Lacking in AT. Unless you kit the unit with Blasters (which limits the units range) or DLs (which limits the unit's movement potential) there is virtually no AT capabilities with the unit. The Duke has a blast pistol but it's short range.
Weakness to strong assault troops. Although the unit can handle some assaults, particularly if it's at full strength, a strong dedicated assault unit would destroy them especially if their numbers have been whittled down.

Conclusion:
I would love to play test this unit because the unit can act as a great obstacle whilst sat on an objective. I find the lists that benefit most from the Duke don't have any units that are worth sitting on an objective and this forces the opponent to make tactical decisions that the rest of the army can react to. It's just a thought and I'm sure not an original one. What are people's thoughts on this?

Put them behind an Aegis Defence Line on top of an objective and they would be tough to crack for anyone wthout a lot of 'Ignores Cover' weaponry. Noise Marines would have a field day!

After my one game against some wolves, I am not a fan of foot warriors. That said, if you can build a list that works, go for it. Play a friendly game or two and post some reps so we can see how well it does! On other issue you have is a lack of range. In a world where 48 is normal, your looking at being picked off as you move up, thats in large part what happened to me.

I certainly wouldn't bother trying to move upfield. I'd camp on a home objective and wait for someone to come to me. Anythign shooting me from 48" away that doesn't ignore cover is going to have its work cut out shifting me from behind my defence line when I go to ground.

Only from portal.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Put them behind an Aegis Defence Line on top of an objective and they would be tough to crack for anyone wthout a lot of 'Ignores Cover' weaponry. Noise Marines would have a field day!

Yea, this looks like a good tactic. I probably wouldn't need to take 20 of them though.

mug7703 wrote:

Slower than the rest of the army. This can be a pro in the sense that the unit has a good change of being ignored in the early game while the rest of the army races up the field to harass the enemy and be in their face. Having no transport doesn't mean the unit can lose several men from one penetrating hit to the vehicle.

This could also be a con in that it means the enemy has less threatening targets to deal with at once and thus has an easier time taking care of your army one piece at a time. My other worry is you're putting your HQ in a slow backfield unit. This seems like a bit of a waste of your lord's combat potential if he doesn't get into combat or if the enemy avoids his shooting. Considering a Haemon could be bought instead and give your guys FnP for sure (and a Liquifier) for alot less points, I'm unsure if it would be worth it. I've not tested it though.

Duke's there to give them a 3+ poison shot. What if you had them come out of a portal and had the Duke zoom off with another units transpot later in the game? Also from reading the comments, I was thinking since this is a foot unit and doesnt have a max size, couldnt you just throw a Haemon in for the auto FNP to make them more survable?

I would think if need be, couldnt you use your vehicles to "hide" the unit behind as you move them?

Your Haemie would deploy the webway on his own, then as the unit emerges from the webway he can join them then. You need to position correctly to allow for 21 models to exit.

You could further add a Farseer (but then cannot use the webway) and cast Prescience; Reroll To Hit, then 3's to wound is brutal when talking a maximum 48 poisoned shots - oh and Prescience would help with Overwatch too

But it is quite pricey, and anything Str6 and above ignores your FnP - Heavy Incinerators spring to mind and one of my GK mates brings a fair amount of 'em.

I am personally liking Splinter Cannon Trueborn in Venoms for AI/MC - 3 squads of them comes to under 370 pts and puts out a maximum of 72 shots (having not moved). Cast DOOM on target unit and say goodbye

1++ wrote:

But it is quite pricey, and anything Str6 and above ignores your FnP - Heavy Incinerators spring to mind and one of my GK mates brings a fair amount of 'em.

They primarily come on Nemesis Dredknights though and that is absolutely the last model that you want anywhere near a large unit rapid-firing poisoned rifles. Even with a 2+ save it's dead the first time they shoot it.

Count Adhemar wrote:

They primarily come on Nemesis Dredknights though and that is absolutely the last model that you want anywhere near a large unit rapid-firing poisoned rifles. Even with a 2+ save it's dead the first time they shoot it.

I normally blow it away at first chance I get, but he seized on me, then made his 30" move T1, proceeding to Incinerate a bunch of skimmers

I've thought about this unit many a time and even though I like an objective sitter, I'm not convinced about this unit, yet.

For me DE are all about aggression and reacting to your opponent. If I press the enemy really early and have him pinned in his deployment zone by warriors are sat doing nothing.

I love the idea though, especially with a captured farseer. Sybarite is a good idea too, lets Duke pick his challenges and a Phantasm Grenade Launcher could be nice.

Defence line - Duke on the quad gun?

I'm starting to have a think about this....

Sky Serpent wrote:

Defence line - Duke on the quad gun?

I'm starting to have a think about this....

I think the defence line is the best option so far. Re-rollable 2+ to hit. Basically a guaranteed 4 hits

I'd rather run the foot Warriors with allied Eldrad. Not only do you need soem foot unit to stick him in, with 4 powers from divination you have a pretty good chanse of getting the 4++ save or overwatch at own bs powers (or both), eliminating their weakness to templates or assault.

How about Baron too? Phantasm Grenade Launcher offers good defensive capabilities, Stealth gives them a 3+ up while Hit and Run would allow the unit to (hopefully) survive a charge, step back and rapid fire the unit to death. Baron would also be better at baby sitting the unit as Duke can move on elsewhere, maybe support some Wyches.

Eldrad is a great choice too but his price starts to escalate that unit very quickly.

I have used the unit to good effect. It has worked best when I get to reserve it and walk on and obliterate an enemy that has advanced into my deployment zone, then take a close objective late game. In ym latest game they were critical at taking out multiple Chaos Spawn units, though they were then hit by a Bloodthirster and 10 Plaguebearers and routed from the battlefield, though Duke survived his challenge and even put 2 wounds on the Greater Daemon.

I have also come to the conclusion that a Defense Line is valuable to augment the unit. It's certainly cheaper and more extensive than a Webway Portal .

The Duke has to deploy with them, but nowhere does it say that he has to *stay* with them. He can leave in a nearby venom or raider and they still get the benefit of his special poison. So it's still only 200 points, and the Duke can join a close combat squad where he'll be more useful.

Unless it's wyches, then he can just join them in getting killed. : D

I used a 20 warrior unit this last week with The Duke, a Heamie, and 2 Splinter cannons. They hulled up in a building to get the cover save and FNP. And it worked perfectly.

With the 24inch range of the Warriors and the mass amoint of shots that can put out they were worth every point.

I played against a Grey Knights army and a New Chaos/Daemon Epidemus Army. And they eraned their points back both times.

In the Grey Knights game he shunted the DreadKnight and flamed one level, but was then completely torn apart by all the poison and then they kept an onslaught of Poison shooting into his foot slogging Paladins. Whitling them down turn by turn. One or two Paladins a turn. Nothing was getting close to my objective.

The Second game the hulled up in a building and used the ok range to hit anything that came close. My opponent flew a Daemon prince to close and lost 2 wounds in one turn to the unit, and he dropped Epidemius in and they helped wipe out the 9 nurgling bases and epidemis by sheer number of poison shots. Anything that came in range, regardless of toughness and FNP was just shredded by th sheer amount of fire coming at them.


I have a campaign coming up and this unit will be a staple in my list as most the missions are objective based. And having the option with the Duke to DS any of my raiders and stuff helps as well. The combat drugs is ok, but has not really been much of a factor as I only run two units of 5 witches in Venoms with haywire.

So I would say a definite yes to him being worth it in a unit of 20 warriors.

i dont field this very often but i have always had alot of fun when i have never thought of adding the baron to the unit though that could be fun, even a guide doom farseer would be amazing here.

CaptainBalroga wrote:

I have also come to the conclusion that a Defense Line is valuable to augment the unit. It's certainly cheaper and more extensive than a Webway Portal .

Why not use both - deploy a Webway portal behind an Aegis Defence Line (preferably on top of an objective too) for your Warriors and Duke to emerge and hold the ground. 80pt investment in protecting an already expensive unit......

Also, reading over the rules for ADL, and I haven't used one in a game yet so correct me if I'm wrong; the Terrain Type is pretty clear, and in the Defence Lines rules we follow rules for Barricade/Walls (4+) so would it be a good idea to take a Sybarite w/ PGL for the Stealth at 8" bonus?

I've always been interested in using the duke (havent yet) but I've never had much luck with foot squads. They havent been horrible but I just like having everything in my army be able to move at least 12". My scourges feel slow haha. I may give it a try though down the road. That much 3+ poison is pretty nasty but I feel like a good opponent wouldnt allow you to use it optimally and probably have a way to take it out relatively quickly.

I would probably just use a homunculus to get the pain token just to keep it simple instead of bumming it off of the wracks. Who doesnt want the liquifier gun for overwatch on that unit?! I'd totally want to deck out the Syrabite too. Venom blade and maybe PGL to give the squad stealth and some defensive grenades haha.