A defensive list for 1800pts DE+E

It might seem weird for DE, but I've decided to try to play defensive.

Too many times my 100+ splinter shots and 20 darklight shots did nothing and the next turn half of my army was dead. So - here is the thought, let's play it the way, that it does not matter if almost everything dies (well, if not playing killpoints )

So, the whole army just stands on foot behind the Aegis, ruining everything they can, venoms and ravagers fly around, try to get out of plasmagun range killing stuff and waiting - the bikes will stay in reserves and in the last turn just contest/claim what is needed - till that they stay in cover.


Farseer on bike joins the 10 kabalites and grabs the quad gun (BS5, night vision, relentless! - so he can move to a better place around the quad and still shoot)

HQ
Farseer - Guide, Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Witchblade
Haemonculus Shattershard, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade

Elites
3x Trueborn - 2x Dark Lance
Venom - Nightshield, Extra Splinter Cannon

3x Trueborn - 2x Splinter Cannon , Haywire Grenades
Venom - Nightshield, Extra Splinter Cannon

3x Trueborn - 2x Splinter Cannon
Venom - Nightshield, Extra Splinter Cannon


Troops
3x Guardian Jetbike

3x Guardian Jetbike

10x Kabalite Warriors, Dark Lance

3x Wracks
Venom - Nightshield, Extra Splinter Cannon

3x Wracks
Venom - Nightshield, Extra Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack
6x Reaver Jetbikes, 2x Heat Lance


Heavy Support
Ravager 3xDark Lance, Nightshield
Ravager 3xDark Lance, Nightshield
Ravager 3xDisintegrator, Nightshield
War Walker Squadron - 2x War Walker with 2x Scatter Laser

Aegis Defence line with Quad gun.

I don't think it's "defensive" so much as necessarily so. The army is already so offensive, building them a bit more defensively is really just adding balance, if you think about it. It looks cool.

I wonder about the Nightshields though. I count 8, are you so sure that's wise?

Even in a mirror match, I've never been bothered by Night Shields. Other skilled players will often not be bothered by them. I made a list of various weapons anathema to Raiders and Venoms and how Night Shields affect them, I'll add it here, but you spend so many points protecting your vehicles (who are not what needs to be defended), that you have no defense against enemy flyers. EDIT: A lone Aegis is not enough.

80 Points is eaxctly enough to change 2 of the Ravagers into 2 flyers of your own. Either works well.

I'm not sure Disintegrators belong on a Ravager. You're limited to 9 Strength 5 shots at one squad. While this is a high volume of shots I think it's overkill on one target, unless you're shooting a full squad of Marines or 5+ Storm Shield Terminators. And even in those instances, you are forced to shoot that Ravager first in your shooting phase to avoid wasting firepower - everything will allocate firepower reactively - and a smart opponent will exploit this.

Otherwise, seems pretty solid.

Hi,
thanks for the toughts

there is a second, not as visible, defence against flyers, and that are the two war walkers (paired with the spell for rerolling hits from farseer the math is not bad)

About the nightshields and the dissie ravager. I face mostly MEQ SW hordes, Paladins, Chsm with havocs/obliterators with MoN, imperial guard on foot, foot necrons and eldars. There are plasmaguns everywhere, and the nightshields just give me two more rounds of shooting.

The same reason there is for the dissie ravager - there is 2+ AS spammed mercilessly and when facing 9 obliterators, I need to get rid of a lot of them asap.

I was toying with the air support, but both planes come rarely at second turn, so there is usually only one flyer on the sky and the opponent can mostly handle one lone AV 10 flyer Maybe I'm playing them wrongly,

Trust me - I've sunk A LOT of Eldar S6 shots into flyers - you will not have good luck, it will not be enough to stand up to flyers. I agree with Agahnim, get some flyers in there. Also, your Wracks - are they really doing much? Such a small squad seems really likely to get picked off of an objective.

Honestly, I don't tailor to beat lists. What's common at one scene may be different from another, but ultimately it's irrelevant with a balanced list.

I don't doubt the math. Having one or two Anti-Air units doesn't do much. Having contingency plans is better. If you're that concerned get the Razorwing and drop missiles. Each one has a 66% chance to come in turn 2, and a 94% chance to come in by Turn 3. I'm not sure what's happening that your opponent is killing them so quickly, given the armies you listed. Paladins have no answers except Psyflemen, who should always be the first things you kill Turn 1. Necrons have their own flyers, but 1v1 you can handle them and you have the Warwalkers and Aegis too. Chaos has options but they're all expensive and infantry-based so they're weak to Venoms.

Everything else - particularly silly foot eldar and foot IG - will NOT appreciate S6 AP5 monoscythe missiles dropped on them. These double as anti-light-vehicle weapons.

You shouldn't be having trouble against those armies. Without battle reports it's hard to pinpoint the cause, but Paladins are a joke because our shooting overwhelms them, foot necrons and foot eldar as well, Imperial Guard need mechanization as much as we do, and while new Chaos and Wolves can be hard, both frequently have a few potent, smaller squads so you're still wasting firepower.

If I could pay to upgrade a Raider to have extra Dark Lance shots, I probably would unless it was ridiculously overpriced. The only reason a Disintegrator is worthwhile is because it's cheaper than a Venom and more accurate than a single Dark Lance.

"There are plasmaguns everywhere, and the nightshields just give me two more rounds of shooting." Explain that to me, please. You've just made 3 statements
There are plasmaguns everywhere (in your opponent's list)
The nightshields (are everywhere in yours)
.: (Therefore, you get) two more rounds of shooting

I don't see how this is a sound or valid argument. The first statement is untrue for Paladins, Eldar, Necrons, and possibly foot IG. Even if it were, how does the conclusion necessarily follow from the premsies?

What I can say, is that by playing smart and not moving forward unless you have to, you can usually get a lot of extra safety anyway, especially against 24" weapons, and if you deploy smart you can force them to bottleneck and expose themselves if they really want to run straight forward and start shooting plasma guns. Which is just dumb of them, you should be able to use their lack of forethought to lure them out of cover.

3 Wracks doesn't claim objectives well. 10 Wracks or 10 Warriors is really the closest any troop we have gets to survivability, and I wouldn't recommend either on anything except objectives in one's own deployment zone. However, because of the mobility of the army, there's no reason to move forward onto objectives or leave one's deployment zone unless absolutely necessary. Usually it's because the game is ending, or it's Turn 2/top of Turn 3 and you want to move out of charge range of something so you can shoot the stuff behind it for one more turn.