Shadowfield vs Clonefield

Not sure if this should be in general or whatever.....if wrong please move

Okay, I was wondering what others thoughts on these were, what do you take and why??

I normally run a archon with ghostplate, clone, pgl, drugs, haywire and agoniser in a unit of incubi, I think clonefield works here becasue there shouldn't be all that much in the way of incoming attacks, and vs shooting I have a unit plus the double 4+ save (fnp), and it's cheaper, so that why I run the clonefield

I use it when I play stuff like Necrons, or when I want to annoy Tyranids players.

Usualy go Archon w/ Clonefield, Agonizer and a pistol of some sort. (a cheap archon)
Then I have him in a unit of bloodbrides or Wyches. with 2 or more Shardnet and Impalers. + a Hekatrix with Agonizer.

You got 4 attacks? Well, 2 less because of Shardnet and D3 less becouse of Clone field, how fun.

I like Clonefield.

1. You may choose to negate instant kills.
   
2. You still may choose to have 4+/5++ armour.
   
3. You have high I (stuff die before it can swing back) and high WS (less ofen hits) so he should get little ammount of wounds, exactly what You want in case of clonefield.
   
4. And when You fail save You aren't f*****

I would like to go with Ein Fleischwolf (Meatgrinder) - Djin Blade, CCW, Blaster, Drugs, Clone Gield, Armour, Phantasm Grenades and Webway Portal if I see fit. Then go with 3-4 Grotesques to catch high s hits and wound abuse.

Local_Ork wrote:

I would like to go with Ein Fleischwolf (Meatgrinder) - Djin Blade, CCW, Blaster, Drugs, Clone Gield, Armour, Phantasm Grenades and Webway Portal if I see fit. Then go with 3-4 Grotesques to catch high s hits and wound abuse.

Don't take a djinn blade, every time I have I have died from it

I usually like shadowfield better when with incubi and clone when with bloodbrides w/3 shardnets

It's Eldar SAG. May burn hole in enemy unit but rarely may burn hole in YOUR unit.
Bad luck shouldn't disqualify options, it's like saying 2++ is worthless when you roll binary code...

Clone field is just in case you get wounds that allow 4+ FNP save and 2 Djin hits that don't.

Local_Ork wrote:

[*]You still may choose to have 4+/5++ armour..

where's the 5+inv save from?

I think he means the Ghostplate armour, but that gives a 6+ invo save and not a 5+.

I have used the clonefield only on Urien 5 or 6 times and it does have a gimmicky twist in its use but a savvy player can overcome it if he is smart.

I would say that the clonefield is pretty decent if you plan on keeping the bearer in a unit or squad. For me, an Archon is not this person as I need the Archon to have the flexibility to go where he is needed either in a group or solo. In a solo performance, the clonefield would be almost useless as you can only really count on dismissing 1 hit so an important IC would receive more than that.

On Urien however, the Grotesques I put him with are more of a threat than him and usually I can maneuver him so he can only get 1 or 2 models in base contact.

Too bad a succubus can't take one - she/he could really use it.

Local_Ork wrote:

I would like to go with Ein Fleischwolf (Meatgrinder) - Djin Blade, CCW, Blaster, Drugs, Clone Field, Armour, Phantasm Grenades and Webway Portal if I see fit. Then go with 3-4 Grotesques to catch high s hits and wound abuse.

If I may?
Why no soul trap?
Granted, your Archon seems custom made to beat down armored troops instead of HQs or MCs, but the Soul Trap offers a relatiely cheap way to fix the one and only problem with Dark Eldar combat characters: low Strength.

I have had some success with the Clonefield. I cant count how many times I have lost my Archon from rolling that terrible 1 on a save against a lascannon. I like using the the ghost plate/ clone field combo instead.

As for the whole question of using a soul trap, you need to be fighting an army with lots of ICs or MCs to really make good use of one. In the club I play at there are 3 of us that play 40k (everyone else has jumped to Warma-hordes, citing that it is "better") and that armies I most play against have only one IC.

Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH! wrote:

Why no soul trap?

Somehow missed it. Thanks, it indeed make any non Ago/Venom builds more viable.

I use Shadowfield. took my opponent using Marine 4 turns to kill him thats 8 Krak missiles, 32 Assulat cannon rounds and 8 Multi melta shots that were saved BEFORE a missile hit the "off" switch! for that reason, i always include it in my army list!

I find myself preferring the shadowfield. With a clonefield, my archon just dies too quickly for my tastes.

I reckon the Shadowfield looks better, but I'm looking forward to using the Clonefiels -reckon it could be frustrating to your opponent esp. combined with the aforementioned Shardnets.

Maybe its that i havent used the clone field enough, but i have had major wins with the shadowfield... one very memorable game i had i managed to save 30 wounds... it was awesome

Well, I really am trying to like Clonefield, but its just to situational. Against a enemy like Necrons it just rocks. getting it with soime shardnets from wyches vs Lords and Cthan is just win. But I feel Shadowfield gives a more "allround" benefit. Might just be me, but then again I never use Archon anymore so :p

I think I should try the clone field since lately my Archon seems to be rolling a 1 whenever he takes a wound. Clone field is worse against shooting, but if kept in a big enough squad that shouldn't be a huge issue, and being an IC with high ws, he usually shouldn't get that many close combat attacks hitting him. Then again, atleats shadowfield gives me a chanse to survive when hit by more than 3 powerfist attacks.

As mentioned above the Clonefield and Shardnets combo works a treat. A great way to deal with Powerfists.

The main problem I have with Clonefield is the overall suckiness of Bloodbrides.

I have used the SF with my Archon in every game I have played. The group I play with now focuses on killing him, because in the fifteen or so games I habe played (I know, I am new at this ) he has yet to die. There was one game that over a three turn streak he was shot at, mind you he was by himself because of my Incubi failing, over 35 times by three different Fire Warrior squads. He already had FNP, and assaulted all three squads by himslef. The save didn't fail until the last shooting phase, where he ended the game on the following turn with one wound left. Twenty Fire Warriors killed by one Archon, while he was the only model left on my side. Won me the game. A similar situation happened with a squad of Terminators, but that is a story for another time.

The idea of the CF fascinates me though. The fact that with a Bloodbride squad taking three shardnets, and some good placement of said weapons, you effectivly make your Archon take at minimum five hits before one has a chance of getting by. Seven if you have a lucky roll. The one downside is the fact that you cant use it against shooting weapons, so if a lascannon or bright lance hits your Archon you better pray that you get that 6+ inv save (assuming you take ghostplate armour).

The SF should definately be used against armies carrying high s high ap weapons, where the CF would do wonders against swarm armies. I guess it all depends on the squad accompanying your Archon and the force you are facing on the battlefield.

The shardnets+clone field is what I used when I still ran an archon. Bloodbrides do not suck and allow the combat to drag on until the archon can kill what he needs to.

Bloodbrides don't suck, it's great to be able to take 3 nets, an archon and a a raider..


Although I never run Archon anymore.... Succubus ftw baby..

MaxKool wrote:

The shardnets+clone field is what I used when I still ran an archon. Bloodbrides do not suck and allow the combat to drag on until the archon can kill what he needs to.

It's the dragging on that bothered me in the first place. I wish they were killier. If they'd had the Agoniser upgrade available like -normal- Hekas, I'd probably consider them.

MaxKool wrote:

Although I never run Archon anymore.... Succubus ftw baby..

Best combat character for sure.

I personally like to run the shadow field. I think it is more reliable, and as darklight said, the CF is too situational.

I haven't used my archon yet, but was thinking of the following line up:
Ghost plate armour, Huskblade, Soul Trap, Combat drugs and Shadow field
An expensive choice ~155 points but it sounds like it could work very well.

I did think that the clonefield would be useful but I play a lot of Grey Knights, who if they cause a wound with their close combat weapons its instant death which is why the 2++ seems so useful.

Also loving the idea of a strength 10 Archon wading in to a paladin squad or IC and causing instant death- sounds like the bane of a Tau Crisis HQ!