1500pt non-competetive list

Just getting used to playing again as i've not played much any of last edition (and only 1 game so far of this). I am going for a list themed around a captured and heavily poisoned striking scorpions commander, who is pretty much being blackmailed by an outcast haemonculi cult in order to survive (there is more to the backstory than this but that's the basics.

Not entirely happy with how the list is sitting but will explain my planned tactics and what i'd like to change after

List itself is:
HQ
Archon 160 pts (warlord)
Blaster, Djin Blade, Combat Drugs, Shadow field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Haemonculus 80 pts
Venom Blade, Liquifier Gun, Hexrifle

Elites
4 * Incubi 213 pts
Klaivex with Demiklaves and Onslaught, Venom with Additional Splinter Cannon and Night Shield

Troops
10 * Kabalite Warriors 130 pts
Dark Lance, Blaster

10 * Kabalite Warriors 130 pts
Dark Lance, Blaster

10 * Kabalite Warriors 185 pts
Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Raider with Night Shields and Flicker Field

10 * Kabalite Warriors 185 pts
Shredder Splinter Cannon, Raider with Night Shileds and Flicker Field

10 * Wyches 240 pts
Haywaire Grenades, Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet and Impaler, Hekatrix with Power Weapon and PGL, Raider with Night Shields and Flicker Field

Heavy Support
Razorwing Jet Fighter 165 pts
Night Shields and Flicker Field



My plan would be to hide the haemonculi in one of the 2 warrior on foot units in cover in my deploment zone (on or near an objective if not playing KP) with the other placed similarly without haem, and to have the 4 vehicles starting hidden, before moving the 2 warr squard in raiders to mid table objectives or cover near these, before moving off to focus on their own targets, and the archon with incubi to team with the wyches in assaulting/ counter assaulting depending on what i'm facing (mainly tag teaming groups but possibly splitting up to have wyches tie up heavier units while archon grabs an easy PT or 2 off weaker squads.

My issues with the build are that i'd love to replace the wyches with wracks, but think the lack of PGL and shardnet and impaler bonus puts them in a worse position than the wracks liquifier guns, free PT, increaced range of possible toys and slight cost decrease (30 points less for 10 wracks with 2LG's and acothyst with mind phase gauntlet (not that i'd use that wep, but same wep cost)) and my fears over taking too much AT to a now much more troop based game.

Would like to hear from more experienced players, as well as general list comments, suggestions for whether on not you'd go for the more thematic wracks, or the wyches (and what the extra points would go on), any major/minor flaws in the plan, whether you would run DL's or Disintegrators, or a mix, on the raiders if handed this list

Perhaps streamlining what you want to do with each unit. I see alot of dual purpose here, short range mixed with long range in warr squads for example.

If you would shave of dual purpose stuff and fit in 2 ravagers instead, that would give them a turn 1 purpose. Also, you seem to be ignoring more than 1 flyer, correct? The jetfighter is an excellent AI unit and if you would have 2 ravagers opening up transports/taking out armored threats, you can have it go DC to give it even more AI power.

I've had mixed success with assault this ed, overwatch can be really nasty with D3 flamer hits etc. PGL is an asset but you really have to think through assault perhaps with multicharge to soak up overwatch etc.

PS. In this list setting haemie as warlord probably denies your opponent that point if you increase his warr unit numbers a bit.

thanks for the reply crion, while i get your point about the blasters and shredders in my units of warriors and everything on the haemonculi except the hex rifle, but that free's up nowhere near the points for a ravager, or was there other things you thought were dual purpose i've not picked up on? or what else would you pick for those points free'd?

I'm ignoring more than one flyer as i've only got the one atm, and i'm taking it mainly as an anti air option that doesn't mean taking a defensive barricade or roll 6's to hit, and would rather have the 2 dl's where so i can always glance on a 4 and pen on 5+ instead of 6 possible shots needing 6's to glance armour 11 (even though glancing down a vehicle is very viable).

As for assault i agree that overwatch - especially with flamers - makes it a scary prospect, hence the 2 PGL's on the units planning to be in combat and my comments about using them together, or using the 2 'close range' warrior units to soften up anything they'll be assaulting first - hence ignoring the shredders from your dual purpose comment, not so useful against anything armoured, but a blast template on big units of low armoured models will be nice, and if not focusing the 2 units will give 30 shots that always wound on 4's outside rapid fire range, or 42 if both at rapid fire range, which will not always be possible, depending on the objectives they're hiding near.

I agree that using the haemie hiding at the back will make him safer in general, but anyone able to drop in a unit, via drop pod or flyer, or indeed anyone with a FMC, will get over, and wipe him out in CC easily

Ok, consider this:
Drop flickerfield from any raider that you can commit to move atleast 1" every turn.

4x 3xwracks with venom upgrade is 4x95=380 These have 8 hull points, 48 poisoned shots, range is 36" and you could drop the nightshield then as you don't need to be within rapid fire range for them to do their job. This is just 10 more points from your current 2 warrraider boats.

Not sure what the stationary 2 squads with hamie is the most effective configuration. if you want objective holders, consider wracks with T4. dropping their blasters is probably right. What if you dropped enough from these two and made one bigger squad and purchased a ravager for whatever you managed to shave off the list?

Since you want to do the assault element with incubi+whyches, why not have your hamie with whyches and he can pass on PT to give them more survivability and skip the hexrifle on him.

You could perhaps shave off a few points on the archon, whyches and incubi upgrades

Thanks again for another interesting reply, but one i have a few querys about

Dropping flickerfields i would be happy with for all but the first turn, remember a game last edition running 6 raider/ravagers (can't remember exactly what) against imperial guard, only to start second and loose half my flyers before i could move, which understandably scared me, though it is something i may think about.

fielding 4 units of wracks in venoms, whilst making sense for the points you mention, plus from the standpoint of my background, bugs me for a few reasons:
- Even with replacing 2 of my warrior squads to do so, leaves me with 7 troop choices - not allowed at 1500pts, though of those left i'm guessing you'd suggest either field 1 of the units of wracks as elites (not sure if that's allowed) or change the wyches to bloodbrides, allowing me to take them and my incubi where the fighting is instead of getting close to end game and trying to move them onto an objective (though i will still plan on countering claims with them)
- At the moment i hav only one venom model, not a big thing to be bugged about, but it's coming up for christmas and pennies are tight.
- this leaves me with 4 units of 3 standard wracks to either mass as additional combat numbers (thrown in last for lack of PGL) or to drop on objectives mid/late game and hope i've gotten rid of anything likely to harm them. Theoretically i can see this making sense, going to ground, in half decent cover, will allow for them to survive a moderate amount of firepower, and should survive a turn or 2 of assault - especially if their oponnent has no offensive grenades - but does not fit in well with my view of a valid 'unit' i will quite happily accept a unit of blsterborn, while not something i would chose to use, as a valid small unit with some nasty firepower, whereas this i see this as if you are saying take venoms which just happen to have wracks in them, more than take units of wracks that are mounted in venoms

Having dropped the blasters from the 2 stationary squads i don't think there's anything else i'd drop from them, if i were to combine them to a unit of 20 i'd still take 2 DL's, just thought with 2 units i'd have some tactical flexibility and be able to choose different targets with the DL's, though your comment about moving the haem to the wyches is tempting, and in keeping with the background - they like 'collecting' favours by sending their debtors off to war in their name, and if they accrue more debt while down there then all the better.

what would you suggest removing from those units, were i to run the haem with the wyches i'd give him a liquifier gun and venom blade just (65pts) but not sure what i'd take off the others

Quote :

Dropping flickerfields i would be happy with for all but the first turn, remember a game last edition running 6 raider/ravagers (can't remember exactly what) against imperial guard, only to start second and loose half my flyers before i could move, which understandably scared me, though it is something i may think about.

Just cover them with Venoms, they do have Flicker Fields.

Right, list as it stands from taking on everyone's comments is;

HQ
Archon 160 pts (warlord)
Blaster, Djin Blade, Combat Drugs, Shadow field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Haemonculus 70pts
Liquifier gun, Power Weapon

Elites
4 * Incubi 203 pts
Klaivex with Demiklaves and Onslaught, Venom with Additional Splinter Cannon

Troops
10 * Kabalite Warriors 115 pts
Dark Lance

10 * Kabalite Warriors 115 pts
Dark Lance

10 * Kabalite Warriors 170 pts
Splinter Cannon, Raider with Night Shields

10 * Kabalite Warriors 170 pts
Splinter Cannon, Raider with Night Shileds

9 * Wyches 218 pts
Haywaire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler, Hekatrix with Power Weapon and PGL, Raider with Night Shields

5 * Wracks 115 pts
Venom with additional Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support
Razorwing Jet Fighter 160 pts
Night Shields and 1 * Shatterfield Missile

Total = 1496
This would work, pretty much as summarised in my initial post, but with the haemonculus now joining the wyches and the wracks acting as either additional combat weight/roadblock/objective campers as needed

Equipment i would possibly still part with - Archon's combat drugs, Klaivex's gear (both pieces), 2 wracks from the squad (even though this would take their role to just objective campers or emergency combat numbers), the razorwings 1 upgraded missile, and possibly downgrading the haemonculi and hekatrix's power weapons to venom blades.


Doing this would leave me 84 points to play with - enough for either a 3 man reaver squad with Heat Lance/Cluster Caltrops for additional combat numbers or Bladevaning infantry, or a Chronos with no additional equipment.....

thoughts on these options or other gear that other DE lords would be willing to part with/downgrade on such units qould be apreciated.