1750 For a Tournament

Tournament coming up at my local shop and I've been building a list. Looking for critique. I've gone for most of my painted stuff to try and get the overall score..

Duke Sliscus
Baron Sathonyx
20 Warriors 2x splinter Cannons
Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun
10 Wyches, Haywire Grenades in Raider
10 Wyches, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix w/ agoniser in Raider
5 Wracks, Liquifier gun in Venom 2 sp cannon
3 Trueborn, 2 Dark Lance, Venom 2 sp cannon
4 Trueborn, 4 Blasters, Venom 2 sp cannon
2 Ravagers
1 Razorwing Jet Fighter

Couple of questions...

Where does the baron go and apart from the +1 to first turn, what does taking him achieve?

Do any of the vehicles have night shields?

Do any of the max squads have unit leader upgrades bar the one unit of wyches?

In with the big squad, giving them a 3+ cover, and defensive grenades. I had a haemi. But thought the squad could get a token easily and could use a lil more protection in cc

No night shields... Never had much use since most at is 48 in around here. And only the squad mentioned has the unit upgrade

So your spending 400+ points for worse marines to give the enemy a static target? What for? The quad gun is a waste against the flyers that matter and your spending a quarter of your points to hold 1 objective maybe? A single flamer in a drop pod ruins your day.

I personally really don't like the ADL in DE list for these reasons...

Quad cannon kills fliers and skimmers. I have found the unit quite useful. The 20 man unit costs about as much as a 10 in a raider with splinter racks, and much less glassy. They dish out a lot of damage, deny an area from the enemy. Most won't charge due to the amount of firepower in the unit. The baron was just added to try him out. Any other suggestions?

But quad guns DON'T kill things at all! S7 and 4 shots is maybe going to get 1-2 hull points from a AV11 vehicle... Against AV12 it's lucky to do 1. Even less if they evade or jink. Its such a waste in DE who spam lances so easily.

Perhaps. But I can't hit a snap shot to save my life. Str 7 that hits is better than str 8 that doesn't

Alright. Alternate list is here...Please review and suggest changes or such!

Duke Sliscus (I love this guy)
9 Warriors in Raider w/ splinter racks

10 warriors in Raider w/ splinter racks

10 Wyches w/ haywire grenades in Raider

10 Wyches, 2x Hydra gauntlets, Hekatrix W/ Agoniser in Raider

5 Wyches w/ haywire in Venom 2x Sp Can

3 Trueborn, 2 Sp Can, in Venom 2 Sp Can

3 Trueborn, 3 Blasters in Venom 2 Sp Can

3 Trueborn, 2 Lances in Venom 2 sp Can

Ravager

Ravager

Ravenwing w/ Disintigrator Cannons

The answer to snap shots is not to do them unless you have no other targets! Ignore the flyers, out move them and kill everything else. The second list looks good though I would be looking to drop the gauntlets, agoniser for a venom blade and then adding night shields to the ravagers and flicker fields on the razorwing

Any particular reason you would drop the gauntlets and agoniser? I mean, I find them to add much needed killy to the wyches..who dont do much killing on their own. And of course, I'd like to know why everyone finds Night Shields so key in this edition

The venom blade is a quarter the cost and nearly as effective as the agoniser, it gets more use out of the drugs as well.

The gauntlets are actually worse than razorflails in most situations but in truth I think the wych weapons are mostly useless - almost never adding any meaningful bonus to a combat.

As for night shields... That's easy. Premeasuring.

The ability to be outside of range and be sure of it is huge! It's better than any save!

Nearly as effective? I dunno, the ability to cut through marine armor, which is everywhere..is kind of a big deal.

I think we differ on the wytch weapon ideal

Night shields... I get that...But my raiders are rarely that far out. They are usually trying to get my units closer to the battlefield!

Obviously if you don't stay back then you don't need Night Shields (though they do let you get closer before you make your big push without being shot down so they kinda help melee too). The general opinion I've seen is that melee isn't as good as shooting in 6th so more people are moving toward shooting and away from melee and with that move Night Shields become better.

As for VB being nearly as effective... Well 2+ to wound (if you get strength = to their toughness, via drugs maybe, you get to reroll this as well) somewhat makes up for the lack of AP compared to the agonizer and of course if you face something other then marines (or something other then basic 3+ save marines, like say terminators) the AP matters less. You're gaining 1/3 more wounds (2+ vs 4+) and losing 2/3 to armor (but again face something other thena 3+ save and the agonizer starts losing out) meaning you've "lost" 1/3 effectiveness overall but the VB only costs 1/4 the price of an agonizer. I suppose saying it's nearly as effective is wrong, the better way to say it is a venom blade is often a better value then an agonizer is.

Agoniser on the charge gets you 1 wound at Ap3. Venom blade gets you 0.555 after saves. Your paying 4 times the cost for less than 2x the damage.plus the +1S combat drug has an impact with the VB. I get where you are coming from (I used to be on your side) but I think with 6th ed and the increase in 2+ saves you just get more mileage from the VB for the cost.

As to the wych weapons... Again, the gauntlets are maybe getting you a coupe of extra S3 attacks. Big deal. Marines don't care. Razorflails will reliably deal damage thanks to rerolls. That said, regardless of which wych weapon you take, it costs the same as another wych! I would rather have more bodies (and thus more attacks guaranteed) than the weapon. 1 precision shot hurts hard as well.

Lastly, cut a meltagun to 6" (3" inch melta) and watch the enemy squirm. Bolters? Ha! Try 18" and then 9" (or 6" depending how you read it). Even up close, night shields save DE vehicles

The thing about wytch weapons is that you can't get two extra bodies in a raider if they are already are at full capacity

But the cost of them does not justify the minor boost they give. Wyches have only ever been OK in combat and all the wych weapons don't really change that