1750 DE vs SW

Hello together,

I am a long time DE player (since 3rd edition) but just now started to play the new edition.

Yesterday I had my 3rd game with the new edition against a very capable Spacewolf player and I got my ass handed to me.

The following will be very sketchy as it is just from memory, but I hope it will include the most important information to help us find the error or problems

I had the following:

The List:

HQ1: Haemi, Venome Blade, Liquifier
HQ2: Succubus, Poison Blade

Elite1: 5 Trueborn, 2 Lances

Std1: 6 Wracks, 1 Liquifier, Raider with Dissintegrator and Nightfield
Std2: 6 Witches, Grenades, Hekatrix with Venom Blade, Raider with Dissintegrator and Nightfield
Std3: 10 Warriors, 1 Blaster, 1 Splintercannon, Raider with Dissintegrator and Nightfield
Std4: 10 Warriors, 1 Blaster, 1 Splintercannon, Raider with Dissintegrator and Nightfield
Std5: 5 Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom with additional Splintercannon
Std6: 5 Warriors, 1 Blaster, Venom with additional Splintercannon

Fast1: 6 Jetbikes with two Heatlances and one Arenachamp with Venom Blade

Heavy1: Ravager with 3 Lances and a Nightfield
Heavy2: Ravager with 3 Lances and a Nightfield
Heavy3: Razorwing with 2 Lances, Nightfield and Flickerfield

Space Wolf list (sorry, only a rough estimate from my memory)

Psi HQ with living ligtning
Psi HQ with I think Biomnacy (rerole all to hit)

Razorback with one shot missile, standards inside
Razorback with one shot missile, standards inside
Razorback with one shot missile, standards inside

Drop pod with Cybot, 2x Sync Autocannon
Drop pod with Cybot, 2x Sync Autocannon
Drop pod with some guys (never arrived)

Landspeeder with Heay Bolter and 2 Rocketsystems

Long Fangs with 4 Rockets and 1 Laser
Long Fangs with 4 Rockets and 1 Laser
Predator with Lascannons and Autocannon

Aegis with Quadgun

The Game

We rolled big guns with standard deployment and no nightfight. My commander will make reserves harde to come in (+1) and he has a trait he won´t use either. The table did not have too much cover. 5 Mission objectives are places all around the table, with each deployed force having one objective near their home.

Deployment:

He won role to go first and deployed an Aegis centrally with his 1 Psi-Guy manning it and a squad of Long Fangs in cover. The Predator was also behind this Aegis. Next to the Aegis there was a big building where his 2nd Long Fangs and his Commander (the living lighning psi HQ sat). Everythin else deployed on the same side of the table, creating a refused flank.

I had the options to stay in reserve with 6 units or to deplay aggressive or to deploy in the opossite corner. I did the latter and castled in. Bikes and Razorwing started in reserves.

I don´t manage to steal initiative

Turn1:

His two Cybot Drop Pods come in and set shop in front of me. In his sooting he grounds one ravager which also looses a lance. He also immobilizes a Raider.

I try to spread out a bit, move towards his Cybots. I manage to kill one cybot, the other is just immobilized. I don´t have range to threaten the troops in his corner yet.

Turn2:

His Razorbacks move up cautiously. He blows up one of my raiders (7 killed in explosion) and strips a gun from another raider.

My Razorwing and Bikes come in. His Aegis can not see my Flyer so he uses his reserve shooting ability to shoot the Bikes, killing 2. I botch my LD and they run off directly again. There goes my right flank *sigh*.

My Razorwing shoots two rockets but only manages to kill 2 Longfangs and reduce the quadgun to 1 life. I kill the last cybot and the droppods. The predator is just out of range of my last mobile Ravager. The two venoms try to kill some longfangs but only manage to kill 1 rocket.

Turn3:

He moves everything up and starts disembarking on the mission objects on my exposed flank. Shooting sees the Raider with my Haemi and the Raider with my whyches beeing blown up, both taking a few casualties. I also lose one of the venoms. Other then my one Ravager and one Venom I am now on foot.

In my turn my Ravager tries to kill the Predator again but fails. The last venom kills the Quadgun. Everything else is pretty much out of range.

Turn4:

He kills my last Ravager and we call it as I have nothing left to move or contest the mission objectives and he is already ahead on points.

Conclusion:

I think this game was lost due to the following:
- The Jetbikes beeing shot and botching their LD during my turn cost me dearly as this was the only chance to pressure his one flank or any mission objectives.
- He had so much firepower that I just lost too many vehicles per turn. With my castle deployment I could not play for objectives as he closed in on me and killed all my mobility.
- First turn or nightfight would have helped but this is nothing I can count on for future games either
- I think castling just does not work. Even against such overwhelming firepower I think I need to rely on target saturation and mobility and just go aggressive. Castling meant he could not use his full firepower on me, but I couldn´t either….
- As for my list, I am unsure if an all firepower list is the way to go. If I would have had a beastpack in the center I could have pressured his longfangs, taking fire off my vehicles.

I realize that the battlereport is a bit scetchy but I still hope you guys can add some feedback.

Thanks for reading and many greetings from Germany.

Thanks for the report! Always good to share the pain.

Thieron wrote:

The Jetbikes beeing shot and botching their LD during my turn cost me dearly as this was the only chance to pressure his one flank or any mission objectives.

This was unlucky, but it happens and is one of the many reasons running squads of 9 reavers is safer as the quad gun has to kill 3 reavers in order to force a moral test (which is unlikely).

Thieron wrote:

With my castle deployment I could not play for objectives as he closed in on me and killed all my mobility.

If you are going to castle, you need to prepare to be pinned in a corner. This means you either need some raiders/troops in reserve to capture objective or some denial units.

Thieron wrote:

First turn or nightfight would have helped but this is nothing I can count on for future games either

You're right, you can't count on night fight, the same way you can't count on going first.

Thieron wrote:

I think castling just does not work. Even against such overwhelming firepower I think I need to rely on target saturation and mobility and just go aggressive. Castling meant he could not use his full firepower on me, but I couldn´t either….

It does work, but you can't afford to let your whole army get trapped in one place.

Thieron wrote:

As for my list, I am unsure if an all firepower list is the way to go. If I would have had a beastpack in the center I could have pressured his longfangs, taking fire off my vehicles.

Your list does seem to lack any form of pressure units, without anything to bother them longfangs will make a mess of your army and happily sit back and plink away with their missiles.

Thieron wrote:

I realize that the battlereport is a bit scetchy but I still hope you guys can add some feedback.

The report is fine! You have given us more than enough information so that we can help you, and at the end of the day that's what matters.

Hey,

thanks for the quick answer

I was hesitant to put half of my army in reserves as splitting them up means you have x amount of power not available to you till they come in.

In this case you are right though, the raiders did nothing at all anyway since they were not in range to pressure the SW so I could as well have had them in reserve and gained pressure and mobility again. If I put venoms in reserve their threat bubble is big enough to pressure the long fangs the turn they arrive.

In 5th I was always hesitant to do this but I guess the 3+ reserve roll helps a lot.

As for the Jetbikes, do you think running one squad of 9 is viable or do you think you need two squads for the redundancy?

Thieron wrote:

I was hesitant to put half of my army in reserves as splitting them up means you have x amount of power not available to you till they come in.

It does have the advantage of being applied wherever you want it. It also means the units coming in get their shots in first. Sure it's not great but it's better than losing all your mobility.

Thieron wrote:

If I put venoms in reserve their threat bubble is big enough to pressure the long fangs the turn they arrive.

That could have helped you, also your venoms didn't have night shields so keeping them in reserve would have kept them safe from shooting for the first few turns (where night shields are most effective).

Thieron wrote:

In 5th I was always hesitant to do this but I guess the 3+ reserve roll helps a lot.

That change alone has made a huge difference, and really makes reserve an option for us now.

Thieron wrote:

As for the Jetbikes, do you think running one squad of 9 is viable or do you think you need two squads for the redundancy

I think it would be fine, as long as you always run them from reserve as a backfield sweeper unit similar to how I did in my last two reports (BR:17 & BR:18). Keep them alive and use them to hunt things like long fangs, also try and get a pain token on them as soon as they come in, bladevaning a squad of 2-3 marines tends to be perfect. Then at the end of the game use them to deny objectives. Redundancy isn't really a problem in this case as you are not depending on them for Anti Tank or Anit Infantry. You might find blasters more flexible than heatlances in this role, as the range advantage tends to keep your reavers safer.

Hope that helps.