Codex breakdown

I went and tried my hand at a codex breakdown. Let me know what you think.

http://commorraghrising.blogspot.com/2013/04/dark-eldar-6th-edition-tactics.html

I updated it with grades and some of the stronger loadouts. I will keep updating it till i think it is good enough so it could be a while till absolute completion.

Whoa, thats a nice list. Good to see more guides for the DE, you must have worked a lot for this.

It took a while. I am thinking about adding a starter buying guide to it as well for 500 750 and 1000 points. I know when I started 40k i was overwhelmed with what to get. Do you guys think this is a good idea.

Great idea, there are a few unit guides here though, but there can never be too many.
And I havent seen any buying guides, so that would be neat.

Grading units is so subjective. And almost always futile. Unfortunately most of your ratings are off one way or another. I recommend reading this as it will highlight what you have overlooked.

Thanks for sharing and goodluck with your blog.

I didnt like the ratings either but i had people ask for them elsewhere. What do you think is off?

MongooseDog wrote:

What do you think is off?

More importantly what units in that list have you actually tried using for extended periods of time this edition?

For example I have only had enough game experience in 6th to feel comfortable giving advice on, wyches, warriors, reavers, raiders, ravagers, grotesques, talos, succubi, archons and haemonculus. The rest I can speculate on, but at the end of the day I don't have any game experience with them, at least not enough to feel adequate judging or recommending them.

I have tried them all at least once and most have a few games now. I read things pretty extensively as well. I have read the guide you linked before. It is super btw. I really wanted mine to be for the new to DE or the casual player looking for advise. I feel that competative players already know most of the codexes or have their own ideas about them. I tried to keep it simple just to give them an idea of where to start

MongooseDog wrote:

I read things pretty extensively as well.

Reading is nice for ideas, advice or inspiration. But it isn't a substitute for experience, and even then experience is dependant on the skill level of your opponents, your gaming environment and so on.

In your guide you are stating a lot of things as fact, when in reality most of them are subjective, and based on what you have experienced with and/or read about those units.

MongooseDog wrote:

I really wanted mine to be for the new to DE or the casual player looking for advise.

Well then send them here!

On a serious note, why not keep it simple then? Stick with core of a Dark Eldar army: warriors, raiders, venoms ravagers.

It is not written as law. And all breakdowns are subjective though so none are really law.

I will be linking to here on the blog though. I like it here.

Now that's what I call a review

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Im sorry to say, but I feel you missed the mark hard on this one. Let me go through each entry and let me explain where you diviated alot.

Vect- You pretty much have him down pat. Although his 4+ to steal is amazing if you really want to go first. That alone should raise his rating up higher, as many armies wish they had that. You also forgot to mention he has prefered enemy, which passes off to his squad.

Urien- I think you have majorly done him some injustice. First off he is T5 and WS5, something that puts him way over a regular Haemie. Add into that he starts with a pain token and gives out D3 pain tokens to other units. He also has a clonefield and flesh gauntlet in his cost base, and regains a lost wound every turn. He basically is a challenge horder. Let him go against most characters and laugh as your clonefield takes most of their damage, and whatever does come through he can re-knit... all the while trying to ID them. Also lets not forget he can up a unit of grots to S6 base for cheap, which makes them more of a threat against tanks when they have Furious Charge (which they will because of him giving out free pain tokens)

Lady Malys- I think you overestimate her. Being S3 and only have a 4++ makes her relatively weak. She does almost nothing in combat against MEQ, which is atleast 70% of your enemies. The only reason to ever take her is her re-deployment, but we can get it in a better form called Eldrad w/ allies, or just use our speed T1 to redeploy anyway (also it doesnt work if you go second regardless... so 50% of the time it doesnt work)

Draz- I can agree with your assessment, but remember 2+ armorsave is now something to be feared due to power weapon changes. Also being able to dodge weapons in certain situations is a really good ability. Although being only able to join Incubi hurts his potential.

Duke- Hugh... dont fall for his tricks. First off he is a WWWAAAYYYY weaker archon. His stat is just way lower than a normal archon, and costs more than even most of the tooled up archons out there. Add in that his 3 rules pulls your list apart (you want to stick him into warriors, but then you want him in combat and some wyches to get the re-rolls) I dont see the love affair with this guy, and he is a newbie trap through and through.

Lelith- Now you give her too much credit. While she has a ton of attacks and looks really good on paper, her S3 ruins it. She only stastically does 2 wounds against MEQs, which is the same for a Succubus w/ Agoniser (and you can get two of them for the price of her). Also add in the fact that you cant mitigate this with drugs, and the only way to get it is through pain tokens (which again... she has a problem killing things to begin with). Although I will admit the addition of challenges have been kind to her.

Baron- Your assessment is valid, but I would add that he has a lower statline than a normal Archon, although he is far cheaper anyway...

Succubus- You forgot to mention how cheap she is for her wound output, also the best drug for her is probably the 2nd drug result (due to MEQ then needing 5s to wound her)

Haemie- Only thing I would add is he is one of the only ways to get templates in the army

Wracks- Again add they are one of the only ways to get templates. Also being T4 makes them the toughess scoring option for us, and they outpreform wyches in combat against MEQ all the time

Incubi- I would add they are made to chew through MEQ

Grots- Again another unit you dont do them justice. being T5 w/ 3 wounds makes them super durable, and 4 of them fit perfectly in a raider with 2 HQs. They make the best retinue we can run (due to just taking wounds like a boss) and they punch hard as well. Add in a template weapon, and they can wreck face easily. I would give them another try for yourself... you are missing out on one of the most underrated units in our book.

Bloodbrides- They dont deserve to be under Mandrakes. They are better than normal wyches. They stastically do more damage and can actually win combat against MEQs without needing two units. Add in the fact that 3 wych weapons at 9 makes them a great bodyguard for a HQ, and greatly increases their damage potential, unlike wyches which the wych weapons really dont help them out that much. They arent an auto include by far, but deserve better than an F rating.

Wyches- The grading is fair, but the reason why is not imho. Overwatch really doesnt effect them much, it just forces us to take a Phantasm Grenade Launcher for stealth (which when added with cover, gives us a 4+~3+ when charging through cover, which we do easily due to fleet) And the pain token nerf is interesting, as while it lowered their effectiveness against your basic troops, it increased their effectiveness at what they are good at, tarpitting expensive units due to being able to take FNP against power weapons. You throw wyches at a unit full of power weapons, and laugh as they dont get out of it till 3~4 turns later. What makes them weak is only being S3 T3, which atleast unlike Lelith you can negate with drugs results (but again... they are garentueed).

Hellions- I feel you rate these guys too high. They are basically weaker wyches with semi-decent shooting. Add in without baron they die so easily (to terrain tests, to lack of a save, to anything really.) The only way to run them is with Baron, period. Also the stunclaw is a gimick that isnt worth its points... you might as well just buy a power weapon.

Scourges- They were better last edition due to stun locking. Currently their only good build is either haywire blaster to remove hull points, or sucicide deepstriking heat lances... That being said your better off with Reavers anytime. Also there is something to say about a 4+ armorsave and the reduction of some coversaves to 5+... but thats almost negligable...

Reavers- Easily tied with beasts as our best FA slot, if not ahead of them (personally I do think that they are, since you cant LoS! in 6" anymore). But you never touch on their AT potential. Blasters and 2d6 movement in the assault phase means they can JSJ (jump shoot jump for those that dont know) out of LoS blocking cover, or get out of assault range easily. Also the option for heat lances means if you try to be agressive with them, they can blow up tanks like nothing. Add in they are 4 attacks on the charge (3 normal and 1 HoW attack) means they are decent in combat as well.

Beasts- Again I feel they really got hurt without the ability to LoS! within 6", but overall I agree with your assessment.

Razorwing- I would add you should always take a flickerfield, as that makes it so you never have to dodge (and in turn never have to snapshot). Also I would add how durable they are now due to the 6th edition ruleset. Also never take missile upgrades, as the missile upgrades are situational.

Void Raven- Again add about the flickerfield and how tough it is. Also never take missile upgrades, it splits its identity (where it wants to be AI or AT). If you want missiles, get a razorwing.

Talos- With run and a splinter cannon, it can reach out and touch people even in the backfield. You loss its biggest potential though, which is a damage soaker. Being T7 and having a 3+ save (and maybe FNP due to its cannon) means it can soak down some major fire. Add in that FNP now gives it a save against things that ignore its armorsave, and you got yourself a fire magnet worth its points.

Chronos- Your right on this thing is weird. But given it again can be a fire magnet (and a cheaper one for that) its decent. Also it has one of the few templates we can get (and its AP3 isnt random) and giving out pain tokens makes it a gimicky choice, but not too bad overall.

Venoms- You forgot a grade

ADL- You complain about the Fortress making you immobile, yet say nothing about the ADL??? It anchors your army to one point, which then reduces one of DE's strengths, and that is mobility. Overall I dont like the ADL at all, and am tired of seeing it in DE armies. If it works for you, then enjoy it, overall though I feel its an inferior choice.

Skyshield- The one benifet over the ADL that this has is that its save is a 4++ instead of a 4+ coversave. Also it gives you something to hide vehicles behind, which is a bonus.

Overall I think a grading system is too subjective. If you only used Grots once and felt they were underwhelming, down goes their grade. I think you should re-visit some of your choices before you start grading them as you have missed a ton of excellent units. Also more body to the article would be nice other than just "its good" on some of them. If you want your blog to stick out, you need quality over quantity.

While i agree with some of that, i disagree with others. That is the kind of feedback i like.

What parts do you disagree with the most?

If you want a decent starter list, I have one buried around here from 5th, but overall its still functions the same: Your more than welcome to steal it and change it to how you want.

Quote :

Beginners Army:

Ok, here is one Ive been almost preaching about. If anyone is thinking about getting into Dark Eldar, this is probably the best way to start. Its cheap for the size of the army, and pretty competitive to boot. Let me post the list first, then I will describe what it contains and how to use it.

150- Archon w/ Huskblade, Soultrap, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywires
223- 9 Wyches w/ Haywires, 1 Shardnet, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
245- 10 Wyches w/ Haywires, 2 Wych Weapons (so either guantlets or razorflails, your choice) Hekatrix w/ Agoinser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
190- 10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Splinter Racks
190- 10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Splinter Racks
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields

Total- 1499 points

So this army is made from 2 Battleforces, 2 Raiders, 3 Ravagers, and 1 Archon blister. It gives you a chance to play with almost every trick in the DE handbook, and gives you a balance force to build apon and change to suit your tastes.

The only changes I would do is maybe drop the flickerfields (but now with tau being the next bandwagon... maybe not) and drop the shockprows for something... as tank shocking isnt as good as it was before. But for what, who knows...

Mushkilla wrote:

What parts do you disagree with the most?

I will get back to you later on this. Gotta run out of town for a bit.

'Harlequins - 4 cover save is awesome. ... Expensive and fun. ... Drop a Harlistar on the board and watch people try and avoid it smile as they easily die to hellfire rounds, heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons, sonic blasters and blastmasters, multiple markerlights, and everything else that ignores cover and is more common than the sniffles, reminding the harlequins that they are still only T3 with next to no armour and on foot. B+ '

That's just one example of how a squad that might be great in someone's experience could be disastrous for someone else. It depends on what you're likely to play against!

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Wyches- The grading is fair, but the reason why is not imho. Overwatch really doesnt effect them much,...what they are good at, tarpitting expensive units ...

I disagree with the disagreement. The thing about wyches in 5th edition was that they could quickly charge at anything, and between the agoniser and haywire grenades, usually kill it. Terminators? Charge them. A chaos defiler? Charge it. Big monster, chaos daemon lord thingie with super powers? Charge it. Unlimited charge account, you might say. They were safer in combat with anything than out where they could be shot at anyway.

Now they can still charge, but only from cover, and within 8", and with a Phantom Grenade Launcher, and in coordination with another unit to draw the overwatch, as long as the target they're charging doesn't have rapid fire weapons, or any flamer type weapons, or any 2+ saves, or any weapons that ignore cover, or numbers on their side, and with the understanding that it's a suicide mission for them anyway. And they still cost almost half again as much as kabalite warriors with the agoniser, PGL, and haywire grenades thrown in.

It's nice to see other people taking a swing at a Codex Unit breakdown - I think it really helps to be able to see a quick(!) overview of everything in one place.

Personally, I avoid grading units, because everyone has different opinions and it's a quick way to alienate your reader. Moreover, many units might be an A in one situation (or against one enemy) but a D in another. That said, you state at the beginning that it's all your opinion of the units.

One thing I would suggest is outlining your grading system in the intro. I started by reading that Vect was a C, but I didn't know if getting a D would be better or worse. It became a bit clearer when I read the rest, and discovered that the lowest grade was clearly an F-. But is this the lowest grade it is possible to get in the world ever, or just the worst in the DE codex? It is entirely conceivable that even our worst unit might be above average in another book (it's not, but it is possible). Explaining your grading system would get rid of all that uncertainty.

Plastikente makes a fine point imo.

If I'm honest, I found the discussion of each unit's attributes too cursory. Some people like that style, I don't, I like big meaty arguments and hard evidence whenever possible. Added a comment though, always nice to see more Dark Eldar coverage.

Barking Agatha wrote:

...with the understanding that it's a suicide mission for them anyway. And they still cost almost half again as much as kabalite warriors with the agoniser, PGL, and haywire grenades thrown in.

You and I have been having different experiences with Wyches in 6th. They've been eating terminators rather frequently in my games, especially those thunderhammer stormshield dudes, or chaos termies.

Keeping them really cheap and picking on weaker units near cover has been working for me. Or plopping them down near some anti-vehicle tanks & walkers and going to town with Haywires. Either way, they tend to need support via shooting instead of just rushing into combat on turns 1 or 2 against most things.

You'll get more mileage out of them if you prep the situation before sending them in. Unless you feel like babysitting them with an HQ.

I echo the comments about seriously underrating Grotesques. I always run one unit of 4 in a Raider with an Aberation(VB), a liquifier, and Haemi with liquifier/VB. You can run this unit in its Raider 1st turn straight into the teeth of the enemy for shock value, up a flank to herd enemy units in the direction that you want to go, or just about anywhere else that you want to on the table. Your opponent must respect and react to them due to the double template/S5/FnP Furious Charge/ 3W madness that they have. They rarely survive the entire game, but draw more than the lion's share of fire and attention from your opponent for a number off turns while wrecking whatever they charge. My opponents at the LFGS groaned, but agreed that the tactic of using two of these units with multiple small core units/2-3 Taloi sounded frightening and extremely effective. (In the process of making the second unit )

If you are intending to write your guide as a beginner's guide to DE, perhaps you should rate your experience using units for the first time rather than simply giving them a final grade based. (In my dozens of games using Grotesques I would give them an A- !)

And i don't think you have given poor old Urien Rakarth the credit he deserves.

I've used him several times and he is a monster in challenges. He can survive an obscene amount of punishment and still come back for more. And your opponent has to fail an armour save eventually for that I.D. ive only every run him wracks though (only because i can't afford grotesqe's yet)

and like a lot of our special character's the bonus's he gives to the other units is good to.

sgb69 wrote:

You and I have been having different experiences with Wyches in 6th. They've been eating terminators rather frequently in my games, especially those thunderhammer stormshield dudes, or chaos termies.

I don't doubt you, but the only way that is happening is if your opponents roll a lot of 1s for their armour saves, which is nothing to do with wyches and everything to do with luck. Gretchins could do as much, given the same luck.

sgb69 wrote:

Keeping them really cheap and picking on weaker units near cover has been working for me.

That's a big step down from what I said, isn't it? They used to fearlessly charge at anything, leaving the 'weaker units' for the shooties, instead of the other way around.

sgb69 wrote:

Or plopping them down near some anti-vehicle tanks & walkers and going to town with Haywires. Either way, they tend to need support via shooting instead of just rushing into combat on turns 1 or 2 against most things. You'll get more mileage out of them if you prep the situation before sending them in.

That's the point. They used to be able to carry the rest of the raid, now they're the ones who need to be carried.

It is likely that a terminator will make twice as many armor saves as a regular marine. And terminators usually cost between 2 and 3 times what a marine does.

When you slam equivalent points worth of Wyches into terminators, you will almost always win. In fact, Wyches will often win at a points disadvantage, it just takes time. What matters is the low # of wounds termies generate and the 4+ invul on wyches.

Boyz for many of the same reasons are also great at sweeping terminators. In this case, Wyches die about half as often and the result will usually take longer to sort out.

Quote :

They used to be able to carry the rest of the raid, now they're the ones who need to be carried.

Synergy isn't a bad thing?

I'd also say that the general move away from vehicles and towards larger numbers of infantry has greatly increased the number of anti-infantry weapons. I know flamers have been more popular in my group lately. Same with large mobs of dudes armed with normal weaponry.

sgb69 wrote:

When you slam equivalent points worth of Wyches into terminators, you will almost always win.

Why can't anyone just for once say, 'actually yes, wyches were nerfed quite a bit by the new rules, and while not too bad, they are not as good as they were before?' Why does it always have to be that advanced calculus and non-euclidean geometry demonstrate that five wyches can kill fifty terminators? Why do you tell me to keep them cheap and then tell me always to add a hekatrix with PGL plus haywire grenades and, of course, a raider or venom to ride in? Why is warriors carrying wyches 'synergy', but wyches carrying warriors isn't 'synergy'? Why do you do this to me?!