2k wytch cult need some feedback

Hey guys I been browsing in this site for a while and today I signed up. I love the info I gotten and I decided to make a list people don't do more in my opinion. Plus I'm the only person in my area who plays DE.

This my list..

Lilith w/ 8 bloodbrides
3 hydra gauntlets
Syren w/ agoniser
Inside a raider w/ NS FF CS and DC

Succubus w/ agoniser and BP
8 wyches and a hekatrix w/ agoniser and PGL
Inside a raider w/ FF NS CS and DC

4x 5 hwg wytches in a venom w/ 2xSC NS CS FF

9 wytches w/ hekatrix w/ agoniser and PGL
In raider w/ FF CS NS DC

6 reavers w/ champ w/ VB and 2x blasters

2x ravager w/ NS FF 3x DC

I still got 36 pts to spend and so far i got 2 wins but barely do to first blood line breaker and kill the warlord.
Any ideas guys it would b much accepted

I'd drop the hydra gauntlets in the bloodbrides unit. Bloodbrides actually get more kills with razorflails statistically, but I wouldn't even suggest going with those. Since you have a Syren and Lelith in that unit to do the killing, I'd suggest shardnets all around to keep your models alive while you kill with Lelith and the Syren.

Same deal on the Succubus unit. Give em a shardnet, it will keep more models alive longer for the Succi and Hekatrix to do the killing. I might consider shardnets once again on the 9 wyches w/ hekatrix.

On the reavers, your current setup isn't bad, but if you can afford it, I might consider going with heat lances, and an agonizer on the champ. This let's the unit open up transports, then charge the contents with some punch.

Good luck! Nice to see someone running a cult list and winning. Keep it up, and let us know how you do!

BetraytheWorld speaks a lot of sense here, particularly on wych builds and heat lances for the reavers.

However, you have a lot of fat that can be trimmed, and thats coming from me who usually runs a lot of upgrades!

I really think your spending a LOT of pts on raider upgrades, and some of which are fairly obsolescent. Flickerfields are not really worth it now with the skimmer/jink scenario, and will only come into play the >10% of the time the raider gets targetted with something that ignores cover, aside from the 1st turn if your going 2nd, in which case you should really be giving them a cover save behind some terrain. So i'd drop the FF's, and swap those 5 pts each from chain snares to aethersails, and keep the nightshields. Therefore, if going 2nd you can set up out of range of the majorirty of your opponents weapons, then move 12"+2D6+18" flat out in your first turn, which is usually enough to get your raiders far enough forward for the wyches to be a threat next turn, and also should let you jump from LOS blocking terrain to the next big piece.

Lelith - is a lot of pts and can actually be less conisitent than a succubus with agoniser(or even a venom blade) due to her not having combat drugs and being S3. I think you'd be better with a 2nd succubus if your keeping to the theme, or if you want to increase your survivability then put in a couple of haemos with your wyches to guard from ERS. Or possibly Siliscus, since everything you have will benefit from him.

Also, every wych squad should have HWG - imo

Good luck and kill loads of mon-keigh

Lelith really is a lot of points, especially with the recent FAQ to the penetrating blade. She could still be useful, and is certainly an awesome model, and fun to field, but not really points efficient. Having a farseer cast invisibility on her, however, is awesome. 14 attacks per round against all comers FTW.

Yea I understand about FF but thing is everyone I play either got heavy flaming droppoding drednoughts, noise marine and heldrake csm, marker light tau .. So I make a all comer list due to these factors.. But in def going to use the reavers advice cus I never thought about that ...

And since I stopped playing Lilith since the beginning of 6th I just wanted to use her again and since I'm soo use to having 5 to wound for pretty much anything I got customized to get those rolls lol...

Next game imma use sharnets cus last game I played I won but outta 12 hits only 3 wounded lol

Btw next game is against two riptides with a farsight and 7 bodyguard and 6 broadsides yuppiee -_- lol

Yea just had a game with tau against two riptides and man it was rough I lost but took both of them out.. (It took all my vehicles just to take down one) Lilith squad didn't even make it due to a pinning test to farsight alpha strike with tl plasma rifle and plasma rifle in rapid fire range is brutal) and his broadsides shooting across the made anything just fall and explode.. In the end all he had was his farsight 3 bodyguards a unit on 2 objectives... I had 1 objective n contested the other. Rough day for Dark Eldar but definitely fun.

I'm surprise to hear you're the only DE player in your area, I'm pretty sure your gaming groupe is fairly small, because DE are quite popular ever since the last codex and model, they're very commonly seen in tournament, more than Eldar, who have a completely outdated codex now.

The reason why most stay away from Wych Cults these days are the current CC rules. cc is too risky and not as good as it used to be for wyches. Wyches went from one of the best trooops to one of the worst.
Warriors have a better save, better distance, better funs, Wracks have the feel no pain, hellions are rarely used as troops anymore, from the fact that they're also less good in cc now, but they do still have an ok firepower.

The thing about the raider upgrades ,about all upgrades in fact, you really waste too many points in sry to say useless upgrades. You can put all the possible upgrades on a raider, but does it make it much better? No.
Our Transports and skimmers in general are good because of their cheap cost, take away the cheap and they're expensive fragile skimmer, in other words, their suck. What's good about a 100 pts raider? Nothing frankly.
NS and FF ok, clearly the best upgrades, especially the FF, most other upgrades, forget about them or eventually have 1 on some of the raiders, but I honestly advice you to stop giving all your raiders 4 upgrades
The same with the venoms, except for NS, not even ,just clean with the 2 splinter cannons, the skimmer is fine, the extra upgrades aren't worth it at all.

The funny thing I noticed about this army was the small size, stricly the sizes and number of units, this is more of a 1750 pts army rather than 2000, believe it or not, but you waste several hundred of points in sry to say useless upgrades.

The wych weapons, sry pal, it's the same problem. Belive me, I love them, I love the models, in particular the Hydra gauntlets, but as far as the battefield, unless their cost is dropped, forget about them, you saw yourself, not worth it. They're not power weapons, even if you do land a million of attack, they still allow saves, vs guys like marines or necrons, having many attacks allowing saves is useless. The guy who does most of the damage is the agoniser hekatrix, the wyches count as bonus. As much as I love them, I keep them at hope, on the shelves those cool wyches.

You have several units worth of upgrades, you could make much better use of.
BTW an archon can also be a Wych, an Archon does not have to be the leader of a Kabal only, just look at his battlefield stats, he's clearly a warrior wyches could follow. In the Path of the Incubi book, an Archon Leads a Wych Cult, in a way, you could say the upgrade of a Succubus is an Archon. Back in the old days there was such a thing as a Wych Archon BTW. It was removed from the codex, but it still is valid.

Lelith sadly, is also kinda useless. The best cc fighters in the codex are Urien Rakarth, Drahzar and an archon (huskblade or agoniser, but most agree it's with huskblade)
Where's Lelith???Nowhere, her low S is her problem. Besides, you can dream on about having lots of attacks, in reality, you'll be confronted with her low S and the fact that if you have 1 single high WS, she is screwed. Her high ,or not so high number of attacks don't kill as much as you tihnk she will. I think Drakzar and Urien are the biggest suprises in cc, they perform exceptionally well.
Problem is, she is worth 1 unit on her own, that unit usually does better than her alone.

Take that last Heavy support ,a thrid ravager is the best option. The flyers are also good. you really need the firepower.
Take reavers only after you've taken your 3 HS and your troops, not before.
Reavers have no priority over troops and it's even worse taking reavers before your heavy support: the best example is the ravager: it's simply much cheaper. Reavers are vulnerable to everyone and anything, even if you do have Heavy weapons, you need some luck to shoot down a ravager, more importantly, normal infantry weapons pose no problem to a Ravager. With some luck on your side, a ravager is unkillable, even with the heayv weapons. Reavers, even with godlike luck will always be fragile.
I never understand why people don't realise how awesome our HS is, this is one of the reason why Spearhead is cheated with a Dark Eldar army.

If you got with a double cc HQ, don't you dare taking Venoms, you'll need the full 3 heavy support choices for firepower and all the raiders you can get. The fact that it took to much to take down those riptid suits proves it,

i'm 1000% sure this is also one of the reasons why you lost, Venoms are fragile, the unit in it is even more fragile. A bad explosion will kill most or all the passengers. How useful is a 2 man wych squad? Not very. A 5 manned squad in a 2k pts isn't much better frankly.
Going full raider isn't just for the DLs, it's also for the transport capacity, 7-8 wych squads.

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The problem with Wych Cults, pure wych cults is the following:
Too much cc. Frankly, you need only a few units to own an entire battlefield with close combat.
The Old wych Cults, as well as the new ones, if the battle goes well a few wych units will do close to nothing, except sit on the objective.
In the old days, it didn't matter whether it was a wych or warrior squad, The splitner fire on the warrior was useless, however today, that is a great source of firepower. I 'd rather have a couple of warriors stuck at an objective shooting, rather than wyches not doing anything at an objective, just holding it.

In this edition, with the current rules, the shooty lists => Kabal units are the best.

Coven and Wych Cults are doing worse than Kabals, Cults in particular. Covens have their pain tokens to boost their units, Wych Cult are mostly very fragile and less effective than ever in cc. BTW the old wyches are better than the current Hekatrix bloodbride unit, that's why they worked quite well. It's best to add some shootyness to Coven and Wych Cults.


One very surprising unit you seem to have completely forgotten is Beasts, the best curreny FAst attack choice. A couple of Khymera + some razorwing are not only fast, but unkillable. Funny enough the word fragile doesn't really come to mind to this unit. No transport, yet very effective, fast close combat. I suggest you try them. This unit is Cheated, completely ignored or underestimated by most, but this unit is just insane.

Trueborn can also be a source of firepower and don't be afraid to use trueborn with 2 DLs, with or witohut a raider, prefer with. Not enough people realise how good DLs are on trueborn. Why am I saying this? Because Wych Cults need firepower.

I completely understand khaine... It's just thy I got bored with my all shooty army(I usually table everyone) and since I got so many wytches I wanted to do a change.. I realized the special weapons are expensive and not worth it ... But the 4 hwg wytches did well the last two game (took out 2 dreds and a vind) but this game my opponent didn't use no vehicles at all( mainly battle suits) so this list was jut bad... But imma deff take a lot of pointers you gave... I'm doing a beastmaster unit as we speak just that it's a big $$ .. Thanks tho deff going to post my new list

You are spending a lot of points on upgrades, personally I prefer to keep my raiders cheap with no upgrades. I find night shields and flickerfields too expensive for the marginal extra survivability they give me. Besides no one wants to shoot an empty raider, and our troops don't want to be in transports more than they need to be this edition.

Beast units are ok, but the amount of ignore cover weaponry around really makes them a weaker choice now (Tau basically counter them completely), and unlike reavers they don't have the deployment options and mobility to get around this. This editions wound allocation hasn't been kind to them. People tend to just rapid fire away your khimeras and then shoot your flocks with their heavy weapons.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

On the reavers, your current setup isn't bad, but if you can afford it, I might consider going with heat lances, and an agonizer on the champ. This let's the unit open up transports, then charge the contents with some punch.

But reavers don't have assault grenades, the contents of that transport will be in a crater and count as being in cover. If they have a Sergeant they can just challenge the arena champion with the agoniser and take him out of the fight (are you going to have a 52 point model with a 5+ save risk fighting at I1?).

Reavers can easily go a game without seeing close combat so investing in an agoniser is investing heavily in something you might not use. A simple venom blade is cheap enough that it's not the end of the world if you don't see combat.

Blasters are an excellent choice as they allow you to keep the reavers safer, and have more flexibility with their range. That being said I personally find you need three to be effective (and therefore need nine reavers). Heatlances are great but they do force you to get dangerously close which can expose you to flamers and unnecessary rapid fire.

Khain mor wrote:

Reavers are vulnerable to everyone and anything, even if you do have Heavy weapons, you need some luck to shoot down a ravager, more importantly, normal infantry weapons pose no problem to a Ravager. With some luck on your side, a ravager is unkillable, even with the heayv weapons. Reavers, even with godlike luck will always be fragile.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Have you used reavers this edition?

Personally I have found T4 3+ cover/ 5+ FNP to make them a real pain for your opponent to get rid of. What makes this even more deadly is their 48" movement means they can contest any objective on the board and always get you line breaker.

Ravagers pop a tank or two during a game, Reavers win games.

Ok I may just be new with DE in 6th, but I really love Lelith and use her in my Wych Cult army. Yes, she is str 3 but directed in the right place she just leaves bodies behind her. I recently played her in a 1000 point game and she dominated the Challenge, against Lucius no less. Even with her only having 6 attacks and Lucius having 8, she still came out on top. Maybe it was luck, but Lelith did amazing! I could have taken 2 succubi for her point cost, but the simple fact that she ingores armor saves won my the challenge. She does have a flaw but as long as the enemy doesn't have anything better than a 4++ or higher toughness she is going to come out on top.

If you are going to run Wych squads in a cult list, they need to be maxed out and with no wych weapons. Agoniser is best on the Hekatrix if you face a lot of 3+ saves, otherwise the venom is good and cheap to force a lot of saves.

I found that you absolutely need to assualt one of their squads with 2 or yours, I use the Wych squad that is fartherest away to initiate the assualt so that the closer one can definitely make it. Using a Wych cult became tough in this edition but in my opinion still fun and can be victorious!

After you unload the Wyches on the front line, use your raiders as cover. That's really going to save you from the return fire that is going to come your way after you win close combat. After your Wyches get all juiced up on FNP the fun can really start, if your opponent made the flaw of Castling up then it's going to a short walk to the next assualt. It's ideal to finish off his squad in his assualt phase...

Mushkilla wrote:

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

On the reavers, your current setup isn't bad, but if you can afford it, I might consider going with heat lances, and an agonizer on the champ. This let's the unit open up transports, then charge the contents with some punch.

But reavers don't have assault grenades, the contents of that transport will be in a crater and count as being in cover. If they have a Sergeant they can just challenge the arena champion with the agoniser and take him out of the fight (are you going to have a 52 point model with a 5+ save risk fighting at I1?).

This is assuming a lot. First, it's assuming they get an "explodes" result from the vehicle instead of wrecked. If the vehicle explodes, you may take out some models in the explosion. Then, afterwards, if you choose to charge, your unit gets hammer of wrath attacks at init 10 as well, possibly taking out more models. And if said seargent is using an unwieldy weapon, or a power fist or the like, you actually MAY accept said challenge, especially if said seargent costs more than the 55 point reaver. Yes, you may lose your champion, but you also have good odds at taking out an expensive seargent along with him.

Now, if the vehicle suffers a wrecked result instead, you may not have to charge through cover, in which case charging would often be a good idea. Alternatively, having that loadout doesn't obligate you to charge. You can still use the JSJ(Jump-Shoot-Jump) ability of their jetbikes to take out a vehicle, decide charging isn't worth it based on the situation, and jump back out of assault range and into cover.

As expensive as reavers are, I don't think spending the 20 points on an agonizer to give them the option to charge in advantageous situations is all too pricey.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

This is assuming a lot.

It assumes one thing, you are taking out a MEQ transport with a MEQ unit inside (as that's what agonisers are good at killing).

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

First, it's assuming they get an "explodes" result from the vehicle instead of wrecked.

The chances are with a penetrating hits with heat lances making a vehicle explode 50% of the time and heat lances only having a chance of wrecking it after three penetrating/glancing hits, that you will either make it explode or fail to destroy it. If it's wrecked your chances of assaulting the contents are severally diminished as: Your opponent can place his models 3" away from the wreckage during an emergency disembark making it unlikely for you to make the charge (reavers don't have fleet). Or if the model count is smaller he can hide being the wreckage out of line of sight, easy to do with a rhino/razorback (and you can't charge what you can't see).

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

If the vehicle explodes, you may take out some models in the explosion.

On average a vehicle explosion involving 10 MEQ will kill 1.66 marines. Less for smaller squads.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Then, afterwards, if you choose to charge, your unit gets hammer of wrath attacks at init 10 as well, possibly taking out more models.

This is assuming you make the charge. It also assumes you manage to get most of the reavers into base to base contact. Not to mention you need to be 7" away from the rhino when you shot at it to have a rather unreliable 50% chance of making the charge against the guys inside. S3 hammer of wrath are pretty infective against marines, better than nothing, but at best they kill one marine.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

And if said seargent is using an unwieldy weapon, or a power fist or the like, you actually MAY accept said challenge

That's a massive assumption. Sergeant don't take power fists this edition unless they are Orks (but again what's the agoniser do for you against orks)?

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Now, if the vehicle suffers a wrecked result instead, you may not have to charge through cover, in which case charging would often be a good idea.

Chances of getting a wrecked result is very small with three heatlances, you need to score three hits and then fail to explode on all of them (around 1/8 chance). But that's not the problem, the problem is if you score a wrecked result you will have a tough time charging the survivors. Unless you were right next to the transport when you wrecked it. Assuming you were 6" away, and the length of a rhino is 3" and an emergency disembark is another 3", that's going to put the nearest model 10-11", the reavers are going to have a hard time making that.

The problems with getting so close are: firstly chances are your opponent won't let you. Secondly if you fail to explode the transport or fail the charge, the reavers will be left exposed to retaliation (most likely rapid fire bolters, or worse). If you want to assault the contents of a transport you need to commit and that's a very risky commitment for reavers to make in my experience.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

As expensive as reavers are, I don't think spending the 20 points on an agonizer to give them the option to charge in advantageous situations is all too pricey.

That's 15pts (assuming you would have got a venom blade) that could have been spent elsewhere, reavers are expensive enough as is giving them wargear they are unlikely to use is ill advised.

Again I'm just pointing out that an agoniser is not beneficial in the situation you described: charging the contents of a transport after destroying it.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from.

Yea I completely understand and iim going to b a little more tactical with my guys and also I put 9 reavers and 3 blasters in my unit

This is my new list:

Lilith w/ 8 bloodbrides
w/ 2 shardnets and impalers
Syren w/agoniser and PGL
In a raider w/ NS FF EA and dissie

Succubus w/ agoniser
W/ 8 wytches
Hekatrix w/ PGL agoniser
In a raider w/ NS FF EA and dissie

9 wyches
Hekatrix w/ PGL Agonsier
In a raider w/ NS FF EA and dissie
2x 5 HWG wytches
In venom w/ 2x SC

5 HWG wytches
In a raider w/ dissie

9 reavers w/ 3x blasters
Champ w/ Agonsier

2x ravager w/ NS FF and dissies

The point in this list is turn 1 deploy from one area to the next where his riptide's range has no Los due to terrain and take out his threat( the broadsides and bodyguard unit.) since anything else needs 30in just to reach me i should be ok in run 2 if his bodyguard comes out I should cocoon myself with my reavers so I can have 3++ and I he wants to shoot my raider units they will have 4++ .. Hopefully the dice gods are at my favor .. And he will set himself up for my trap

Well I gotta say I just finnally got another game in with the tau(due to getting my certification and job hour changes) but it was a victory.. I played a lil more defensive( I used duke this time inside of Lilith and getting that +1 str helped) I made my duke and succubus squads in reserve to better my odds.. Had a lot of terrain ( rolled a lot of 5 and 6 on the d3) so it blocked a lot of his guys LOS
I went for the most important guys (his riptides) with my ravagers 18 ap2 shots made 9 wound his riptide and yea 5++ with fnp didn't safe that onslaught...
Second turn I opened fire on his two units of pathfinders and bladebaned the survivors( now I have cover saves again^_^)
Third turn he went after my ravagers w/ his Farsight unit that deepstrike but that was farsights demise ... Since my ravagers were only 15 in from the table I opened fire with everything while duke unit flat out to his second riptide (which he left alone and move forward with his other units to help his dying crisis suit and farsight. I charged him with 5 hwg wyches and 10 wyches which did light work on that unit I denied the challenge cus I had 2 hekatrix
The main threat in tau as I seem is pathfinders riptides and farsight alpha strike.. With a lil patience ( i know it hard) and target priority we can win but I did lose 3 venoms 2 raiders and both my ravagers