Which list for 750 Tournament?

Hello, got 750 pts small tournament coming andt there are some rules I have never played with:
- no 2+ save
- 4x4 table
- no more than 32 total av on vehicle
- no allies
- only 1 ordnance wpn per army
- 1 hq, 2-4 troops, 0-2 rest
- special chars allowed, fortifications allowed

Thanks to Mushkilla advice, here are two lists I consider:

LIST 1
Haemonculus with lq and vb
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Trueborns x3 with 2 blasters in Raider
Trueborns x3 with 1 DL
Talos with TL lq and TL sc
Talos with TL lq and TL sc

LIST 2
Haemonculus with lq and power axe (goes with Grots)
Grotesque x3 (with Abberation) with lq in Raider
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Wracks x3 in Venom with sc
Talos with TL lq and TL sc
Talos with TL lq and TL sc


Basicly list one has no dedicated melee unit, but has 2 lances and 2 blasters. List two has hard hitting grots but only 1 lance, which probably wont shoot as Raider will flat out and possibly die next turn to deliver Grots.

Or I could always take Eldars force

Farseer on jetbike, guide, fortune, runes of witnessing
3x3 Guardian jetbikes, 1 Shur. cannon in each squad
Vypers x2 with double shur. cannons
Wraithlord with scatter lasser
Wraithlord with scatter lasser

Serious S6 spam and T8 Wraithlords.

What you guys think?

I like list 1 better. The two Taloi should be able to disway most assault units that can fit in that point level away from you, and if not, you have enough shooting to finish them off before they make it to you

List 1 looks pretty good.

I would recommend taking a ravager (or 2!), and I wouldn't take dark lances on trueborn.
Ravagers get dark lances for much cheaper. If we do the math...
12x3 trueborn + 25x2 for two lances = 86 (that's 43 points per lance)
Ravagers get 3 lances for 105, plus they can move 12" and shoot all of them. (that's 35 points per lance)

Otherwise it looks pretty solid. You should also keep in mind that wracks will almost always get their armor pierced, and therefore will be relying on a 5+ feel no pain. If you only have 9 of them, you might quickly find yourself without any scoring units.

List one looks good. Though In my experience, once you get bellow 6 or so dark lances they really lose their effectiveness, blasters even more so. List two sacrifices the unlikely chance that you might glance/pen a tank at range for more pressure to keep your opponent off your troops and venoms. So I think I would take my chances with list two, but then again I have never been a fan of blaster born. It also gives you a safer place to keep your warlord (list one leaves him in a very vulnerable).

kryo wrote:

I would recommend taking a ravager (or 2!)

On a small 4x4 board (with potentially sparse terrain) at this points level, you will lose those ravagers if you don't go first. Making Talos a better option by far.

kryo wrote:

You should also keep in mind that wracks will almost always get their armor pierced, and therefore will be relying on a 5+ feel no pain.

Remember they also get cover (3+ when going to ground in area terrain) and are small enough to hide out of line of sight (can't kill what you can't see). I think the idea is to keep them in reserve and have them walk onto objectives. This will also make the venoms appear as less of a threat as they will be empty (so your opponent won't be taking out your troops and your ranged dakka.

You should get some practice in with both lists and see which you prefer. As I can imagine both of them take some getting used to so practice will be important.

Best of luck in the tournament.

Mushkilla wrote:

On a small 4x4 board (with potentially sparse terrain) at this points level, you will lose those ravagers if you don't go first. Making Talos a better option by far.

I guess that with a 4x4 board, ravagers could easily lose their edge. Personally I've never played on anything smaller than 6x4.
I also don't play with maps that have much area terrain... so I'm always forced to rely on FNP.

Edit: Even so, why not replace your blasterborn in the raider with a ravager? Instead of 2 blasters and 1 darklance, you get 3 darklance... plus a few extra points!
Remember that ravagers have AV 11... it comes in handy.

I guess I just really love ravagers

Its because as I wrote, 0-2 max heavy supports. But... my new list is like this:

Haemonculus + lq
Trueborns x3 +2 Blasters in Venoms + SC
Wracks x3 in Venom + SC
Kabalite Warriors x5 + Blaster in Venom + SC
Kabalite Warriors x5 + Blaster in Venom + SC
Ravager 3x DL
Talos TL lq

746/750

Its 4 Blasters, 3 DLs, and 9 Splinter Cannons. Talos can stay as counteratack unit, but imho this list has far more shooting than previous.

I'm afraid one talo won't cut it, with MCs it's go big or go home. The ravager may or may not be worth while when you go first. Personally I think you're moving back to a fragile shooty list.

Try out all your lists and see what works. But it looks like your are not comfortable running talos, in which case I wouldn't bother, they take some practice to use well, and if you are not getting any practice games in then just stick to what you know.

Hope that helps.

Ok, after hard debate and having tournament in 4 days im still trying to find a good list.

Hemonkulus with liquifier and power axe - attached to wracks with acothyst to get challenges
3x Wracks (with Acothyst) in Venom w/ 2xSC - retinue for Haem and cheap Venom
5x Warriors /w 1 Blaster in Venom w/ 2xSC - im kinda light on AT thats why typical blaster squad
5x Warriors /w 1 Blaster in Venom w/ 2xSC
Ravager - only long range AT here
Talos w/ TL liquifier - I hope he will be good fire magnet


Now with left over points I can either take Beastpack:
- 2 Beastmaster with 5 Khymeras and 2 Razorwings OR
- another 5 Warriors /w Blaster in Venom OR
- 2 Beastmasters with 2x Clawed Fiends

Now as I will be playing against several chaos marines, gk, sm, tau, ig, tyranids, should I try to put more AT against rhinos and chimeras or better more cc defense. I never ran beasts without Baron, so Im looking for advice how would they do, waste of points or good cheap cc option?
Thanks

i would say use the warriors in the venom. they add more troops and add more anti inintry and possible anti vehicle with the blaster.

Mushkilla gave you great advice. I would've gone with list 2. You had 2 weeks to practice with 2 taloi. That's enough time.

Now... You're out of time to practice.

1 Ravager... Isn't enough.
1 Talos... Isn't enough.

Either 2 Ravagers or 2 Taloi to increase effectiveness.

If you go with another Ravager I would take the 2 Beastmasters with 5 khymeras en 2 razorwings.

If you go with another Talos I would take another 5 warriors w/ blaster in Venom for more long range firepower.

The lesson is synergy. Not individual models.

Practice needs time, I dont have time cause of my 1,5 yo son. He's one of those HNB (High-Need Baby), and after whole day in work, than helping my wife I dont have and chance to play. One game per 1-2 week is all I can afford so please dont say its my fault I didnt practice. believe me I would like to, but practice is more than one-two games. My only chance now is good list that why Im asking here.

So, as I am far more experienced with running Ravagers than Taloi.

Haem with lq and vb
5x Warriors /w 1 Blaster in Venom w/ 2xSC
5x Warriors /w 1 Blaster in Venom w/ 2xSC
4x Wracks in Venom w/ 2xSC and grisly trophies
2x Beastmaster with 5 Khymeras and 2 Razorwings
2x Ravagers with dark lances

Looks nice, I just hope to get first turn or that there will be enough LoS terrain to not die in first turn xD

Ah ok. My 1st kid is on it's way. So I hope it' ll leave me some time occasionatly to play 40k.

As for the list. Looks fine. But you' ll struggle like I did, which you can read here:

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6294-br24-the-black-buzzards-vs-grey-knights-1000pts