Orb of Despair

Well like most of the older DE player's I nearly died of old age waiting for a new codex.
But finally it arrived and, like everyone else i expect, i tried out all the stuff i could before
settling on my favourite combo's and set up's.
I tried out all the wargear ( except the stinger pistol, i mean come on has anyone used it)
but in the last few weeks ive decided to go back and try out some of our
less viable options and give them a thorough test, not just a few games like i did when the codex
came out.

So Im going to start with the Orb of Despair and the electrocorrosive whip.

Orb of Despair.
At first glance this piece of kit looks great, then you look at the range. A blast weapon
that can scatter further than it can be thrown????? I honestly thought it was a mistake
and would get FAQ'd.
Well anyway for the last 2 months ive been using it every game
and found, if not a great, then a reasonable set up.
Ive been giving it to an Ancient Haemonculi (you really need that BS5) in a gunboat of
9 warriors, raider, splinterwracks,FF,TGL. If you survive long enough to get the raider close
and use it, at least it cant hurt you if it scatters back onto the raider. the TGL for the negitive
1 to LD helps as well. It wounds, at worst, on a 3+ with AP1.

Like everyone knows not our best piece of kit but the above set up works ok. If anyone else has
used it effectivly let us know

Electrocorrosive Whip
Sadly the whip has performed quite poorly during my testing. I use it on an Archon to give it a chance
of getting stuck in to the stuff it needed to. Unfortunately The models it needs to
work on have to good a save to have been affected by the whips rule. I think the special
rule came into effect once in 15 games. If it was AP2 then it might be worth taking.

i could do a writeup on every wargear item but imho the wargear section needs some kind of rethinking

my concernes are with the availability to our HQ's. Archon's and Succubus's should be able to take something that the Haemy can take and vice versa.

although things in there are straight up crap
blast pistol - 6" range, comon!
the whip - maybe vs T3 but then they almost always have S3 too so why bother for 20pts
djin blade - not worth killing yourself, thats for the orks to do
stinger pistol - liquifier!

6" range has a lot of form for AT pistols, BA infernous pistols for example.

The Djin blade needs to be a weapon upgrade not a weapon.
Imagine a Djin huskblade

Why the Stinger Pistol hate?

Ok, it's probably less useful than a Liquifier, but it's cheaper and you can take it alongside your Splinter Pistol, allowing you to fire both.

Which would still leave you shooting two underwhelming pistols.

I would like to hear any feedback on the Mind Phase Gauntlet.
It has the potential for some pretty awesome 'Backhanded slap to the face' moments.
Wish an Archon could wield one.
Hickory.

-Jack-

I like the dark gate. Few people see it coming. I'll bring it in larger games.
I also like the shatter shard (obvious).
The Flesh Gauntlet thing is nice, if you have points for it. In a Grotesque squad it's pretty rude.
I think the hex rifle will start to show up again. I am thinking about taking them in my wrack squads. A lucky shot to an etherial will make them Fire Warriors cry.
The real problem with all this fun gear is that it's too pricy and too situational. A dark gate is wonderful IF you get in the right place to use it. A hex rifle is nice If you roll that 6 to hit.
RB

Ben_S wrote:

Why the Stinger Pistol hate?

Ok, it's probably less useful than a Liquifier, but it's cheaper and you can take it alongside your Splinter Pistol, allowing you to fire both.

Well, the thing for me is that it feels like wasted points. I can't recall ever once firing my Haemonculus' pistol, and so upgrading it to a different pistol just feels pointless.

See, I'll usually take Liquifier Gun (and maybe Shattershard) on my Haemi. Generally, I find that he's out of range of both that and his pistol, or he's in range of both (in which case, guess which one I fire). Basically, his pistol already feels redundant, who why on Earth would I want to pay to upgrade it to an equally-redundant side-arm?

It seems like Haemonculi could just come with a 2+ poison pistol as standard and it would make very little difference.

DominicJ wrote:

6" range has a lot of form for AT pistols, BA infernous pistols for example.

That's true, but then those pistols are also AP1 and melta. So, more often than not, when they're close enough to fire them they're close enough to get +2d6 armour penetration.

Perhaps it would make more sense if you compare meltas and multimeltas to blasters and dark lances.

Multimelta - S8, AP1, 24" Heavy, melta
Dark Lance - S8, AP2, 36" Heavy, Lance

Melta - S8, AP1, 12", Assault, melta
Blaster - S8, AP2, 18" Assault, Lance

So, in both cases, we trade AP1 and melta for AP2, lance and 1.5x the range.

If you extrapolate this for pistols, you'd expect our blast pistols to have a range of 9" (1.5x 6). But, they don't - they have the same range as infernous pistols and cost just as much (and, at that range, melta and AP1 starts looking much better than AP2 lance).

Or, maybe I'm reading too much into this.  

Rancid blade wrote:

The real problem with all this fun gear is that it's too pricy and too situational.  A dark gate is wonderful IF you get in the right place to use it.

Agreed.

Rancid blade wrote:

A hex rifle is nice If you roll that 6 to hit.  
RB

Well, with the hexrifle, even if you roll a 6 to hit, you still have to roll a 4+ to wound as well (not even taking into account the enemy model's save). So, you can expect to actually wound the model you want once every 2 games.

I think I'd also like the arcane gear to have a bit more stuff that isn't 1-use only - especially since it's supposed to be our compensation for not having psychic powers.[/quote]

The Shredder wrote:

I can't recall ever once firing my Haemonculus' pistol, and so upgrading it to a different pistol just feels pointless.

Fair enough, but you missed the main point: you can upgrade his CCW to a Stinger Pistol, giving him two pistols. There's certainly no point replacing the Splinter Pistol.

Ben_S wrote:

Fair enough, but you missed the main point: you can upgrade his CCW to a Stinger Pistol, giving him two pistols. There's certainly no point replacing the Splinter Pistol.

How exactly did I miss the point?

I'm still paying extra points for a pistol that I'll never use. Why would it matter in the slightest whether I waste those points replacing his pistol or CCW?

Well, I said that an advantage of the Stinger Pistol is that he can fire both pistols, to which you responded that there's no point replacing his Splinter Pistol, which was not what I was suggesting in the first place.

You may be right that the Stinger Pistol still isn't worth it (I did say the Liquifier is generally more useful), but it's clearly a waste to replace the Splinter Pistol rather than the CCW (hence it wasn't my suggestion). Having the two pistols is cheaper and can sometimes be useful.

Ben_S wrote:

Well, I said that an advantage of the Stinger Pistol is that he can fire both pistols, to which you responded that there's no point replacing his Splinter Pistol, which was not what I was suggesting in the first place.

Apologies for not being clear then.

My point was more that the range of a splinter pistol is only marginally greater than that of a liquifier gun. And, given the choice, I know which one I'd fire.

Regardless of whether I exchanged my CCW or splinter pistol for a stinger pistol, I still wouldn't fire it over my liquifier gun.

Ben_S wrote:

You may be right that the Stinger Pistol still isn't worth it (I did say the Liquifier is generally more useful), but it's clearly a waste to replace the Splinter Pistol rather than the CCW (hence it wasn't my suggestion). Having the two pistols is cheaper and can sometimes be useful.

Well, I guess it depends on whether you intend to give him any other melee weapon. If you don't, then you're quite right - upgrading his CCW would be pointless when the Gunslinger rule exists. Saying that though, if I was going down that route, I'd probably want to upgrade both my CCW and my splinter pistol to stinger pistols. In for a penny, in for a pound.  

However, if (like me) you like giving him Venom Blades or a Power Axe, then there's more of a reason to instead exchange his pistol.

Rancid blade wrote:

I like the dark gate.  Few people see it coming.  I'll bring it in larger games.
I also like the shatter shard (obvious).
The Flesh Gauntlet thing is nice, if you have points for it. In a Grotesque squad it's pretty rude.
I think the hex rifle will start to show up again.  I am thinking about taking them in my wrack squads.  A lucky shot to an etherial will make them Fire Warriors cry.
The real problem with all this fun gear is that it's too pricy and too situational.  A dark gate is wonderful IF you get in the right place to use it.  A hex rifle is nice If you roll that 6 to hit.  
RB

he gets a Look out sir!, right ? on 2+ .... so hex rifles aren't really the bomb, i think "the" best points vise weapon for haemy is Liquifier though

doriii wrote:

Rancid blade wrote:

I like the dark gate.  Few people see it coming.  I'll bring it in larger games.
I also like the shatter shard (obvious).
The Flesh Gauntlet thing is nice, if you have points for it. In a Grotesque squad it's pretty rude.
I think the hex rifle will start to show up again.  I am thinking about taking them in my wrack squads.  A lucky shot to an etherial will make them Fire Warriors cry.
The real problem with all this fun gear is that it's too pricy and too situational.  A dark gate is wonderful IF you get in the right place to use it.  A hex rifle is nice If you roll that 6 to hit.  
RB

he gets a Look out sir!, right ? on 2+ .... so hex rifles aren't really the bomb, i think "the" best points vise weapon for haemy is Liquifier though

I agree and I will also add that I do not believe Haemy's are good for CC and CC units so I would just leave him behind. But yeah liquifiers on wracks and grotesques are legit.

The Shredder wrote:

DominicJ wrote:

6" range has a lot of form for AT pistols, BA infernous pistols for example.

That's true, but then those pistols are also AP1 and melta. So, more often than not, when they're close enough to fire them they're close enough to get +2d6 armour penetration.

Perhaps it would make more sense if you compare meltas and multimeltas to blasters and dark lances.

Multimelta - S8, AP1, 24" Heavy, melta
Dark Lance - S8, AP2, 36" Heavy, Lance

Melta - S8, AP1, 12", Assault, melta
Blaster - S8, AP2, 18" Assault, Lance

So, in both cases, we trade AP1 and melta for AP2, lance and 1.5x the range.

If you extrapolate this for pistols, you'd expect our blast pistols to have a range of 9" (1.5x 6). But, they don't - they have the same range as infernous pistols and cost just as much (and, at that range, melta and AP1 starts looking much better than AP2 lance).

Or, maybe I'm reading too much into this.  

Good points, it should be 9"

shadowseercB wrote:

I agree and I will also add that I do not believe Haemy's are good for CC and CC units so I would just leave him behind.  But yeah liquifiers on wracks and grotesques are legit.

Yeah, I wouldn't use a Haemonculus in combat if I could help it.

Saying that though, I think they go well with a combat squad in a transport. Just disembark the squad (taking the pain token with them), and leave the haemonculus behind. He can then do fly-by shooting with his liquifier gun, while your combat squad makes use of his pain token.