A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

@ligolski: Personally I'm not all that opposed to either escalation or stronghold assault (both of which are pretty restricted in tournaments around me).  The only thing I don't particularly like about super heavies is that for a number of armies, the only way to deal with them is by taking your own super heavy, and with certain buffs they become very imbalanced.  For example, Lord of Skulls vs. grimoired lord of skulls on a skyshield, Revenant vs. Fortuned 4++ Revenant (unless there's some rule about not buffing superheavies that I missed).  I also don't think D-weapons themselves are the problem, the problem is that they tend to come on incredibly tough platforms and for the most part have a long range and large blast, which basically makes them too good at killing anything and everything, while being very difficult to remove without your own D-weapons.  I think blast D-weapons should be available to all armies in VERY limited numbers, to help combat the fairly overwhelming number of deathstar based lists in competitive play at the moment, but on more killable and/or shorter ranged platforms.  If something like the DE Dark Gate was a D-weapon, it would be a useful tool for dealing with deathstars, but in no way would it be game breaking, being short ranged, 1-shot, and 1 per army (likewise other 1-shot, limited number things like the Deathstrike and orbital bombardment certainly wouldn't be overpowered if they used the D-weapon rules with a modest point increase).  Other non-1-shot D-weapons should either be short ranged (like 18-24") or not have a blast marker.  To build off your proposed fix, I'd make current D-weapons that use a blast/template S10 AP1 with the ability to become strength D but they lose their blast/template.

My problem with D weapons is that just ignore everything...no cover, no invuln, just a roll on a chart and if you roll 2+ things die horribly. I could get behind a 1 shot type of deal, but even D weapons as non blasts just wreck all MCs in one blurp of a shot...I think thats imbalanced a bit and needs to be toned down still.


I agree though with your assessment on the virtual need to take a super heavy or something similar to combat like units...though I think some of the super heavies are quite tame and beatable using base codex armies (such as the baneblade). I think the other problem with escalation is models chosen to be in escalation vary in actual physical real life attainability for a player. Baneblades and stompas are pretty easy to obtain and not overtly over costed within the realm of GW. Now eldar, marines, and tau have to go to FW to obtain extremely expensive models...to the point where many just can't afford them. What helps is that FW now has a list of models that can be used in 40k for escalation...but FW is still pricey (though great models for sure!) and hard for some to obtain...hopefully that will change soon with upcoming changes with GW's website. That barrier to cost is just hard for some to cope with (myself included) and just doesn't help escalation get the balance it needs.

@ Bugs_N_Orks
- I did test Epidemius - he can be a trap. You start looking to up your tally and ignore the mission and the inherent strength of the list. It iwas a problem for me once or twice. I might reinsert him though as he certainly is viable. Thanks.  
- Beasts are so cool. Really with FNP they are so hard to take down and their special rules = Slime Trail and Attention Seeker - make them an ideal pairing for Drones - assault the Drones and get the bests, lol. With a Herald they chew through units.- Heralds really need to hop between beasts, PBs and Drones.

This is the list I have also used Bugs:

Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle, Grimoire, Locus of Fecundity, Lvl 1 125
Herald of Nurgle, Portaglyph, Locus of Fecundity, Lvl 1 125

3 Beasts of Nurgle 156
3 Beasts of Nurgle 156

4 Nurglings 60
14 Plaguebearers, Plagueridden, Etherbalde 141
14 Plaguebearers, Plagueridden, Etherblade 141

7 Plague Drones, Death's Head, Plague Banner 369

2x Soul Grinder, Phlegm, Mark of Nurgle 360

Of course you keep Epi in reseerve with a squad of PBs hoping the tally gets up there using Drones and SGs and you want misma on the heralds if you get it and you always spawn horrors hoping for a bolt of change (screw the tally). Plagueswords are great equalizers, lol.

@ Ligolski
You know what i hate - that Tau can ally with SM. There is a new combo now ...
Buffmander w/Iridium
Biker CM with Shield
Riptide Ion/SMS/Override/Target Lock (cute eh)

These kinds of combos are neither fluffy nor fun IMHO. But hey - these guys still lose games. Escalation is here to stay. How they adjust D Weapons is another matter. The introduction of Knights is a clear clue to what is coming. You will start seeing IG lists with platoons w/ thudd and sabre, shadowsword (or other crazy super-heavy) and two knights as allies and other such nonsense soon. Take out 14 HP ... get to the platoons holding objectives.

The end is nigh ...

ligloski wrote:

My problem with D weapons is that just ignore everything...no cover, no invuln, just a roll on a chart and if you roll 2+ things die horribly. I could get behind a 1 shot type of deal, but even D weapons as non blasts just wreck all MCs in one blurp of a shot...I think thats imbalanced a bit and needs to be toned down still.

We might have to agree to disagree on this one, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with that. Vehicles have always had the potential to blow up to single shot, so I don't think it's all that crazy for there to be a hard counter to MCs like single shot D-weapons. Personally I'm of the opinion that the more things which have hard counters the better, since it'll push army composition to be more balanced (and less spammy) or run the risk of getting rofl-stomped if you run into that counter.

egorey wrote:

Welcome to deathstar 40k. Look at the latest winning lists ... dronestar, beaststar, seerstar, o'vesastar,  screamerstar ... it is getting crowded out there boys.

Like I said before I absolutely think the answer to deathstar 40k is D-weapons (in limited numbers and on not-unkillable platforms). There's tons of places they could be shoe-horned into the game as it is (pay XX points to make the void mine large blast D, 3 D-cannons can combine shots into one S-D large blast, etc. etc. etc.)

egorey wrote:

The end is nigh ...

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have (for a long time) been deluding themselves into thinking that 40k is well suited to a competitive environment. It really isn't. Lots of games are decided on single die rolls, and plenty of the time those die rolls happen before the game even begins (turn choice/table sides/psy-powers/etc.). Take my match-up against Eldar/Tau the other week, I rolled fortune with my single Eldar roll (I don't fish for fortune and usually take 1 each of Eldar/Div/Tele), and it made the game virtually unwinnable for my opponent (who had a good army and is a very good player). Stronghold and Escalation are certainly making it more obvious, but the underlying problems have always been there.

My hope is that because of Stonghold/Esc. people will start to become more accepting of Comped tournaments. It should be very clear to everyone that GW doesn't care about making the game balanced, and I really don't uderstand where all the hatred towards comp comes from (in general, not from specific people here, I have no idea what your guys feelings are towards it).

Lately I've been having a lot more fun playing Mordheim. Since it's been abandoned by GW nobody really has any problem with adjusting rules to make the game play more smoothly/be more balanced/be more fun/etc. The fact that you only need 20 or so models is a pretty big plus also haha.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

ligloski wrote:

My problem with D weapons is that just ignore everything...no cover, no invuln, just a roll on a chart and if you roll 2+ things die horribly. I could get behind a 1 shot type of deal, but even D weapons as non blasts just wreck all MCs in one blurp of a shot...I think thats imbalanced a bit and needs to be toned down still.

We might have to agree to disagree on this one, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with that.  Vehicles have always had the potential to blow up to single shot, so I don't think it's all that crazy for there to be a hard counter to MCs like single shot D-weapons.  Personally I'm of the opinion that the more things which have hard counters the better, since it'll push army composition to be more balanced (and less spammy) or run the risk of getting rofl-stomped if you run into that counter.
.

I certainly understand and appreciate your opinion though! My only fear is that D-weapons are mounted on things that can take a ridiculous beating...Eldar Titan? That thing is ridiculous. I like my idea (obviously haha) of limited use so to that end we do have some overlapping agreement as it offers solutions to deathstars which are pretty bland for the game. Hopefully D weapons get some sort of solution that makes all parties happy though!


So I will be presenting a list for an 1850 pt mini tourny with friends soon. I will also present a 1650 pt list for a tournament at a store close to home to try out the tourny scene. The store is disallowing escalation, stronghold, and special characters (very interesting). Knights will be evaluated once they drop. Not sure on dataslates though. Either way its an interesting point level (who the heck plays 1650?) and the missions won't be posted until day of...they said to bring a well rounded list...so that's interesting too. I'm thinking of a list that looks like some of my old old lists with more troops and mixed with some of my newer lists....so far in my tinkering this has yielded something that doesn't have my WK :/

So I was dreaming of how to abuse Black Legion ... then I started asking about it in the chatroom. Psycheer and Wandering Blade lent me a hand in designing a list.

Four by Four C:CSM:BL

HQ: Sorcerer Lord (Bike, Sigil of Corruption, The Last Memory of Yuranthos, Hand of Darkness, Lvl 3 Caster, Spell Familiar, Veteran of the Long War)  255
HQ: HQ: Chaos Lord (Mark of Slaanesh,  Steed of Slaanesh,2 Lightning Claws, Sigil of Corruption, Veteran's of the Long War, Meltabomb ) 165

Troop: 3x 10 Cultists 150
Troop: 5 Noise Marines (Blastmaster) 125

FA: Heldake (Baleflamer) 170
FA: Heldrake (Hades Autocannon) 170
FA: 2x 5 Spawn 300

HS: 3x Maulerfiend (Magna Cutters) 375
HS: 2 Obliterators 140

(1850)

So everything in the list moves 12". The Sorceror Lord casts sunburst at lvl 4 and just does damage. When needed he can ID a WK. The Cultists and Drakes start in reserve of course.

Now for those not familiar:

The "AoE Psychic Artifact" is called Last Memory of Yuranthos. A bit more expensive than a single Plague Marine. You gain 1 additional Mastery Level but do not generate a new Psychic power, your instead given one called Sunburst (which is a nova power). You can use Sunburst using 1, 2, or 3 psychic charges. If the psychic ability is successful using 2 charges, its range is increased to 12", or 18 if using 3 charges. If you fail the psychic test when using 2 or 3 charges, the psycher is removed from play, no wounds, just gone.

Sunburst:

Nova psychic power. Range 6" S4 Ap5 Assault 2d6, blind, ignores cover

No risk - no reward - but you do have a spell familiar.

Hand of Darkness lets you exchange all attacks for an AP1 ID attack. Not too shabby if you want to try and take out that WK or Riptide.

I can choose to outflank my Lord with acute senses if i think it the better option. Outflanking a squad of spawn with a dual LC Slaanesh lord can be entertaining.

Now if you prefer the cheesy approach ...

BL/C:CSM - 1850)
HQ: Daemon Prince (Daemon of Nurgle, Wings, Lvl3, The Last Memory of Yuranthos, Spineshiver Blade, Spell Familiar) - 340
HQ: Chaos Lord (Mark of Nurgle, Bike, Sigil of Corruprtion, Lightning Claw, Powerfist,, Veterans of the Long War, Blight Grenades) - 175
HQ: Be'Lakor - 350
Troop: 3x 10 Cultists - 150
Troop: 5 Plague Marines (Plasma Gun, Gift of Mutation) - 145
FA: 5 Spawn (Mark of Nurgle) - 180
HS: 3x Maulerfiend (Magna Cutters) - 375
HS: Maulerfiend (Lasher Tendrils) - 135

Note that th DP with the Spineshiver blade gets 4 attacks + D6 attacks  + 1 attack for charging at AP2 - this is generally around 6 Smash attacks (if you go that route) at +1 init at S10. Even a Imperial Knight best beware.

This list is just abusing Be"lakor like crazy by casting invisibility on the unit that needs it most, using hallucination on Tau, Puppet Master on Riptides, Wraithknihgts, etc. The DP with Nurgle mark is a beast. The Spawn and Maulerfiends will take the pressure of the two FMCs. Good luck. That level 3 also means you have two templates that you can cast with the DP.

Enjoy.

Some pretty interesting results coming out of the Torrent of Fire Invitational.

Here's a link to the leader board
http://challonge.com/tofinv
and the army lists
http://www.torrentoffire.com/3549/torrent-of-fire-invitational-and-summit

Some definite upsets and a good number of non-Deathstar armies taking down deathstars.

Some standouts for me:
Simon Leen and his S8/AP1 spam +DCA sisters/Inq. taking down Tony Kopach and his Seercouncil+serpents
Rob Tilly and his battle force marines taking out Rob Baer and his SM/SW Bikestar
Nick Nanivati and his Drone-Star falling to Tim Gorham with an unconventional SM/Inq. list

So seer council w/ deldar - SW/GH grav spam ( what I play) - grav biker spam w/ inq - seer council w/ taudar

So despite a few lists that are interesting the cream rises to the top. And the top two the list we keep discussing - grav biker spam and seer council with DE.  

And the winning list is Iron Hand with biker Command squad, a couple of stalkers tigerius with cents and dataslate inquisition with coteaz, inquisitor nd some acolytes in chims. All at 1750. His troops are just scouts at 56 points a pop and the acolytes (all pretty cheap).  

So not really big surprises. I did not notice any new Nid dataslates - which will be tough or Be'Lakor appearing - which would have been tough. In fact only one Nid list and just a few daemon lists. The guys competing were really top notch players for sure. So there were no pushovers in the mix, lol.


Here is the big difference though in the latest winning lists from various venues. SM are now winning at a much higher rate. All of these lists seem to incorporate bikes and a CM. And yes, there are deathstars getting beaten up by these combos.

I've been following this thread for a while now after looking for information on Dark Eldar and beast packs in particular.

This list went 4-1 after losing the first match to Alan Bajramovic's seer council.

Hq
Eldrad – 205

Karandras – 230

Troops
3 Guardian Jetbikes – 51

3 Guardian Jetbikes - 51

3 Guardian Jetbikes - 51

3 Guardian Jetbikes - 51

Fast Attack
6 Warp Spiders – 114

6 Warp Spiders – 114

7 Swooping Hawks – 112

Heavy Support
3 Shadow Weavers – 90

HQ
Lord Asdrubael Vect – 240

Troops
20 Warrior – 2 splinter cannons, Sybarite – 210

Fast Attack
5 Beast Masters – 20 Kymerra, 2 Razorwing Flocks - 330


This list interestingly doesn't play any Wraithknights. I am also wondering if Eldrad joins the beastpack or goes with the warriors.

What are your thoughts on such a list?

Eldard and Karandras are with the beastpack. They can then be fearless and get poison and have a tank to take wounds. Karandras has stealth and monster hunter ( so good now with all the MCs about) and is a total beatstick inn cc. Baron is more a generic addition - he is good for the cost - but the beast pack does need hit and run. Note also that alot of good players - Sean who invented the beast pack and others - are using Vect/Karandras and more khyms now trying for fortune ( Eldrad is good this way). As a side note - if you want to be tricksy - ally in Karandras to your DE and put him in a grotstar. Then outflank the buggers.

I feel the weirdest addition to that list is Vect...going first with that many jetbikes wanting to capture at the last minute is interesting...but I guess the idea is to assault as quick as you can and get your psychic powers off.


Here is a list that your resident duck has presented me for some discussion:

Imperial Goodnights (1750)

HQ: Knight Paladin (warlord) 375
HQ: Company Command Squad (4x Meltagun) 90

Troop: Knight Paladin 375
Troop: Knight Errant 370
Troop: Veteran Squad (3 x Meltagun) 100

Fast Attack: 2 Vendettas (with Heavy bolter sponsons) 280

HS: Manticore 160


Here we have knights as primary and thus the 2 "troop" versions score...yes rumor has it that primary detachment knights can score. That would be a 6 hullpoint behemoth that can move 12" a turn...wow!

The rest of list is filled in by some "elite" imperial guard units. The vendettas carry the vets and command squad and will provide support for the knights. The manticore is just icing adding the usual IG long range support.

This list is very low model count, but now you need to have a list that can deal with 3 super heavy walkers that are fairly quick, a beast in CC and have the range to make you cry if you play a short ranged army. And if thats not enough you need to deal with 2 vendettas running around.


So what does DE have to offer against this? I honestly think a raider spam wych army loaded up with haywire could do some serious work on a list like this. However that is tailoring and that list would struggle against a whole lot of other things. What do you think we can do? I'd love to hear opinions!

3 Blasterborn squads and a Ravager with trip DLs. Build the rest of your list as you see fit

How survivable is a beastpack when it doesn't has fortune? When running Vect / Karandras you only have 4 shots at getting fortune while also really wanting prescience. So you'll basicly have 3 shots at fortune which is a little over 60% of the time sucessful.

This doesn't look that good.

Well Barnie:
You are hoping that you get fortune with Eldrad there. But doom is pretty nice too. Karandras should be with the beastpack but he can start with the Hawks I guess. The list above is very flexible, has lots of MTOs, various means of movement and deployment. That is what makes it good.

Archon-Hidicul:
No do not build the rest of the list as you see fit. There is a preconceived notion of what should be the core in most DE lists that I find annoying. These are the lists that play the same basic tactics every game - you know the ones - venom spam - blasterborn spam - tri-rav - beastpack follies. Thee are perceived formulas of how they should be run. The way in which you support your core is very important and is not always that transparent. This thread has always been about thinking outside of the box without ignoring what is happening in the meta overall.

I've got a local tournament coming up that downgrades battle brothers to allies of convenience and limits you to 2 of the same elites, one special character in the main HQ, only 2 of the same heavy support and only 2 flyers.

I've got a well stocked amount of dark eldar and painting up the rest but looking to take allies (I'm not really aiming to be competitive). I have CSM (night lords) and eldar but my preference is for CSM.

I was thinking of taking them as main with the following rough sort of lilst:

Huron Blackheart

10 raptors with 2 x flamers and 2 x plasma gun (champ as a lightening claw) maybe mark of slannesh/icon of excess for FNP

5 raptors with 2 x melta (deepstrike)

3-4 x units of 5 CSM with plasma guns

Heldrake with Baleflamer

Allied to:

Haemonculus

5 x haywyches in venom

3-4 wracks in venom (only have 4 at the moment so no liquifier poss) Haem to ride with these

trip lance ravager

6 reaver jetbikes with 1 x heat lance OR 1 x cluster caltrops


The idea being to infiltrate up one side with as many units as poss using hurons trait, keep him camping back with a unit of CSM (hmm beef one up to 10), deep strike in the meltas for back room attacks.

And then use the speed and mobility of the Deldar to whip forward in a pincer like movment, hopefully ignored because a load of CSM are bearing down on them...

Any thoughts on this idea or other combos you can think of. I don't have a lot of CSM, no transports at all and just 10-15 chosen and cypher on top of what ive stated.

Eldar I have a lot more but not going to list. I think it will be a fun list but poor competitively obv

ligolski wrote:

So what does DE have to offer against this? I honestly think a raider spam wych army loaded up with haywire could do some serious work on a list like this. However that is tailoring and that list would struggle against a whole lot of other things.  What do you think we can do? I'd love to hear opinions!

I think if Knights begin to be a widely accepted thing then other SHA/Esc. stuff probably will too (which means tons of change for the meta). With the addition of 3-9 void shield generators a fast assault Boat list becomes a lot more competitive against its previous bad match ups since it can survive going second, and a boat full of wyches is bad news for a Knight.

There's plenty of other really ugly looking (at first) builds available with those books though. I play mostly at 1850 and my friends and I came up with this (and I'm sure lots of other people have made similar lists):

Farseer, warding, witnessing (goes with broadsides, rolls all Div)
4 x 3 jetbikes
Revenant Titan

Tau Commander, 2 MPs, Skyfire, Interceptor, Irridium, puretide, MSSS
10 kroot,
3 Broadsides, 1 target lock, 2 interceptor

Bastion, quadgun, voidshield

Farseer, commander and broadsides go in the bastion and swat down flyers or mulch troops with ignore cover broadsides. Revanant does it's thing. Just watch out for puppet master haha.

Sorry for not posting the LVO battle reports.
What I was writing was taking forever. So I will try and just give a quick overview of the tourney soon.

I will also post a Gottacon tourney report that I attended this weekend which was tons of fun. It was a smallish tourney with about 48players

You have a nasty mind Bugs.

Yacht Clubb'n

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

ligolski wrote:

So what does DE have to offer against this? I honestly think a raider spam wych army loaded up with haywire could do some serious work on a list like this. However that is tailoring and that list would struggle against a whole lot of other things.  What do you think we can do? I'd love to hear opinions!

I think if Knights begin to be a widely accepted thing then other SHA/Esc. stuff probably will too  (which means tons of change for the meta).  With the addition of 3-9 void shield generators a fast assault Boat list becomes a lot more competitive against its previous bad match ups since it can survive going second, and a boat full of wyches is bad news for a Knight.

There's plenty of other really ugly looking (at first) builds available with those books though.  I play mostly at 1850 and my friends and I came up with this (and I'm sure lots of other people have made similar lists):

Farseer, warding, witnessing (goes with broadsides, rolls all Div)
4 x 3 jetbikes
Revenant Titan

Tau Commander, 2 MPs, Skyfire, Interceptor, Irridium, puretide, MSSS
10 kroot,
3 Broadsides, 1 target lock, 2 interceptor

Bastion, quadgun, voidshield

Farseer, commander and broadsides go in the bastion and swat down flyers or mulch troops with ignore cover broadsides.  Revanant does it's thing.  Just watch out for puppet master haha.

I agree about boat spam with wyches and shields. Very straight up and has potential. If the meta remains diverse though then it may struggle but if we just see more super heavies then that will be the way to go.

That list is really mean. One thing though, I'm pretty sure a bastion can't take a void shield attachment. Double check that because i think that is in a different list of additions...I think you could take tank traps and razorwire and the gun and that's about it.

colinsherlow wrote:

Sorry for not posting the LVO battle reports.
What I was writing was taking forever.  So I will try and just give a quick overview of the tourney soon.

I will also post a Gottacon tourney report that I attended this weekend which was tons of fun. It was a smallish tourney with about 48players

Looking forward to both.  I'm also a huge fan of just doing quick overviews and then letting people ask questions.  Full battle reports take too much time esp. for non-exciting games.

ligolski wrote:

One thing though, I'm pretty sure a bastion can't take a void shield attachment. Double check that because i think that is in a different list of additions...I think you could take tank traps and razorwire and the gun and that's about it.

I'm pretty sure all of the buildings can take a single void shield, but it just protects the building, no 12" bubble.

egorey wrote:

And the winning list is Iron Hand with biker Command squad, a couple of stalkers tigerius with cents and dataslate inquisition with coteaz, inquisitor nd some acolytes in chims. All at 1750. His troops are just scouts at 56 points a pop and the acolytes (all pretty cheap).

There actually wasn't a bike squad in the list, the entire list was basically an obnoxious Cent-star with 5 HQs (2 CMs, Tiggy, Coteaz, Grenade Inq.), a triple plasma LotD squad, 2 stalkers, and a thunderfire (with 250 points of the cheapest troops possible lol). The main weakness I see in the list is that against strong shooting the CM can be focus fired around (since they're on bikes).

What I see is GW making IK a codex. Not a supplement - not a dataslate - a codex. So now we officially have D weapons entering regular 40k games. This is line crossing. We can now expect some surprises in the new codexes to be released I'm sure. We might not have a revenant titan to deal with but SH and D weapons are entering the meta slowly. So although I expect some tournaments to say no escalation, dataslates or stronghold we get to a point about what can be included if the trend continues and there is nor reason to suppose otherwise.

Those guys don't shoot ordnance and that makes the difference.

I get what you are saying Vasara but that is not the point. The point I made is that Imperial Knights is a codex and that is a harbinger for future codexes that will include SH and D Weapons - think what is in store for IG as an example.

There are answers. D Weapon and SH rules can be reviewed and revised. GW can FaQ grimoire somehow like the FaQed hallucination NOT to work on IKs ... lol. I am hoping something is done. But I'm just telling it as it is.

All the new deathstars, etc., have forced me to include units in my list that start to bend the rules as well. This is my current SM list:

Iron Wolves (1750)

250: Chapter Master; Artificier Armour; Shield Eternal; Power Fist; Auspex; Bike -- Iron Hands 
165: Rune Priest: Runic Axe; Runic Armour; Bike; Chooser of the Slain; Lvl 1; Jaws/Living Lightning  --  Space Wolves
100: Coteaz -- Inquisition

145: 5 Bikers: 2 Graviton Guns; Combi-Graviton -- Iron Hands
140: 5 Tactical Marines; Plasma Cannon; Razorback; TL Heavy Bolter -- Iron Hands
115: 5 Grey Hunters: Flamer; Razorback; TL Heavy Bolter -- Space Wolves
140: Henchman Warband: 8 Psykers; Acolyte; Bolt Gun; Chimera; Multi-laser; Heavy Flamer-- Inquisition

125: Storm Talon: TL Assault Cannon; Skyhammer Missile -- Iron Hands

075: Stalker -- Iron Hands
075: Stalker -- Iron Hands
420: 5 Devastator Centurions; 3 Grav Cannons; Grav-amps; 1 TL Lascannon; Omniscope -- Iron Hands

As you can see I'm spamming grav, I'm including AA, I am using S10 templates. I added an allied detachment and an Inquisition detachment just to keep up with all the other deathstars and now apparently a few SHs which need to be dealt with at range. Yahoo.

egorey wrote:

What I see is GW making IK a codex. Not a supplement - not a dataslate - a codex. So now we officially have D weapons entering regular 40k games. This is line crossing. We can now expect some surprises in the new codexes to be released I'm sure. We might not have a revenant titan to deal with but SH and D weapons are entering the meta slowly. So although I expect some tournaments to say no escalation, dataslates or stronghold we get to a point about what can be included if the trend continues and there is nor reason to suppose otherwise.

I agree that SH and D-Weapons are creeping inevitably into the game but I still suspect that most big tournaments will implement changes to D weapons rather than allow them 'as is'. They are simply too game-changing to allow them in unchanged.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

colinsherlow wrote:

Sorry for not posting the LVO battle reports.
What I was writing was taking forever.  So I will try and just give a quick overview of the tourney soon.

I will also post a Gottacon tourney report that I attended this weekend which was tons of fun. It was a smallish tourney with about 48players

Looking forward to both.  I'm also a huge fan of just doing quick overviews and then letting people ask questions.  Full battle reports take too much time esp. for non-exciting games.

ligolski wrote:

One thing though, I'm pretty sure a bastion can't take a void shield attachment. Double check that because i think that is in a different list of additions...I think you could take tank traps and razorwire and the gun and that's about it.

I'm pretty sure all of the buildings can take a single void shield, but it just protects the building, no 12" bubble.

egorey wrote:

And the winning list is Iron Hand with biker Command squad, a couple of stalkers tigerius with cents and dataslate inquisition with coteaz, inquisitor nd some acolytes in chims. All at 1750. His troops are just scouts at 56 points a pop and the acolytes (all pretty cheap).

There actually wasn't a bike squad in the list, the entire list was basically an obnoxious Cent-star with 5 HQs (2 CMs, Tiggy, Coteaz, Grenade Inq.), a triple plasma LotD squad, 2 stalkers, and a thunderfire (with 250 points of the cheapest troops possible lol).  The main weakness I see in the list is that against strong shooting the CM can be focus fired around (since they're on bikes).  

I double checked, you are right sir. Very interesting!