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 New Player 1500pts thoughts?

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drazphreak
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Join date : 2013-09-25

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PostSubject: New Player 1500pts thoughts?   New Player 1500pts thoughts? I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 28 2013, 18:56

This is the army I believe will work best to start off and give me the type of play I am looking for. Looking for some constructive criticism here, or is this a solid army. Example below is for a 1500 point list.

HQ
Duke Sliscus accompanied by 4 Incubi w/ Kaivex w/ Demiklaive and Onslaught perk. In a Venom w/ Grisly Trophies.

Archon w/ Venom Blade, Blaster, Ghostplate Armor, Combat Drugs, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field. Accompanied by 4 Incubi w/ Kaivex w/ Demiklaive and Onslaught perk. In a Venom w/ Grisly Trophies.

Troops
10 Warriors w/ a Sybarite w/ Ghostplat Armor and Venom Blade. In a Raider.

10 Warriors w/ a Sybarite w/ Ghostplat Armor and Venom Blade. In a Raider.

10 Wyches w Haywire Grenades, 2 w/ Hydra Gauntlets and 2 w/ Razorflails. In a Raider w/ Tormented Grenade Launcher.

10 Wyches w Haywire Grenades, 2 w/ Hydra Gauntlets and 2 w/ Razorflails. In a Raider w/ Tormented Grenade Launcher.

Thoughts?
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Paradoliak
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PostSubject: Re: New Player 1500pts thoughts?   New Player 1500pts thoughts? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 29 2013, 20:25

Looks like you're going for a more assault oriented list, cool!

Okay, so incoming wall of text, since I say a lot, hopefully this isn't too hard to get through, and is understandable.

At a glance, I'd say the main thing is you have a lot of upgrades that aren't really worth it. all the points you could find by shaving off upgrades could get you another unit probably.

Klaivex are decent, but they're not great. They do add a tiny bit of staying power with their leadership value, which the ICs cover already, and they only add a bit of kill power for a high cost. I'd say that 4 plain Incubi would be better.

Grisly trophies are only mildly useful, as a lot of the time you probably won't be in range of the Venom that has it, since you want to get your Incubi out to assault, then move your Venom away to avoid it being destroyed instantly.

Don't forget that Duke Sliscus MUST be deployed with a Kabalite Warrior or Trueborn squad at the start of the game. This means that with this list, you must start him with one of your Kabalite groups, and that that group would need to start the game disembarked. You would then need to have Sliscus leave the Kabalites and join the Incubi. If he moves to get to the Venom, your Venom would no longer be able to move that turn, so you'd always have to deploy your Incubi Venom within about 6" of the Kabalite Raider Sliscus starts with.

Your Archon has a LOT of upgrades. A venom blade is great, it's effective and cheap, though it has no AP so armor saves are nice against it, though it murders monstrous creatures. The shadow Field is an absolute must, so good choice there, it's amazing. Ghostplate armor is largely redundant due to the shadow Field, so that's not really worth it. Combat drugs are personal preference, I do use and love them but I don't see many others run it. The Phantasm Grenade launcher is a great option as it really strengthens your Incubi. The Blaster is alright, personal preference. you probably won't shoot it much since that unit wants to get into combat, but it does provide some nice versatility. You could take a Blast Pistol instead of a Blaster for the same number of points, which would reduce your range by 6", but because Pistols count as a close combat weapon, would also give you +1 attacks in close combat where your Archon wants to be. That's personla preference really though. A lot of people like to take a Huskblade and Soul Trap on their Archon, because it gives an AP2 Instant Death weapon, that when killing a monstrous creature or independent character, has a chance to double your strength for the rest of the game, making you a real powerhouse. That is expensive at 45 points though, and down to preference, since getting that first kill can be tricky with the Archon's 3 Strength. I'd say for this, drop the Ghostplate armor for sure, the rest is good.

For your Warrior squads, remember that you want them shooting, you usually do not want them to assault because they're about average, it's not their strength at all. Knowing that, a Sybarite with a Venom blade means you want to assault. Since that's something you don't want to do with the Warriors, it's a waste. I'd say a Sybarite isn't worth it normally because it only gives you a tiny leadership boost. Instead, try dropping the sybarite and his equipment for a single Splinter Cannon, which will give you another 4-6 Poison shots per turn at 36" range! 10 warriors with a Splinter Cannon in a Raider can put out a lot of hurt from a good distance.

Your Wyches cannot take that many wych weapons. For every 5 wyches, you can trade one's Splinter pistol AND close combat weapon for a single wych weapon. You can take 2 Wych weapons for a squad of 10, and the ones with the weapons can no longer shoot. I would advise 2 Hydra Gauntlets, as they seem to be the best for adding damage. Also, similar to what I said about Grisly trophies, you probably won't be in range to use torment Grenade Launchers most of the time. You don't want your Raider to have to hover around a combat in the open if you can help it, so I'd say it's not worth it.

If you do want to add upgrades to your Raiders or Venoms, take either Flickerfields (Venoms have them by default) or Night shields (best on the Warrior Raiders). Night shields reduce enemy range by 6" making it much easier for you to shoot them and not get shot back. Of course that's less useful when you want to fly your unit up into assault range. Those are the best two upgrades, but keeping your Raiders cheap and unupgraded is great too, since our Raiders die easily and are good without them.

Okay now, other than those upgrades, the only thing I'd say you're lacking is Anti-Vehicle (AV). Most of your units can go vehicle hunting, but it's not their main focus, assault or anti-infantry is. You might want to consider grabbing some dedicated AV, most likely a Ravager, which for 115 points shows up with a night shield and 3 Dark Lances! If you wanted to go more with your close range theme you could also go for a Talos Pain engine (100 points without upgrades), which can do some strong anti-infantry, as well as Smash vehicles if it gets in melee range, or blow them up with haywire blasters or heat lances. The Talos is a bit trickier to use, but I've never played with one personally so I won't say too much more than that. I don't know much about Scourges, but they can be built as tank hunters as well.

Of course, do what you think sounds more fun for you or suits your play style. If you play and get great use out of Grisly trophies, then fantastic! I just think it's worth considering that if you were to drop all the aforementioned upgrades, you would free up 240 points, that's a lot! You could add Splinter Cannons to your Warrior Squads, and then happily grab another two units of Wyches/Warriors, or two Heavy Support options for some AV!

TL;DR Try to cut down some points on upgrades. The units themselves are good, though you may want to add some Anti-Vehicle. Hopefully that's helpful and not too difficult to get through, sorry for the wall of text! Smile
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drazphreak
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PostSubject: Re: New Player 1500pts thoughts?   New Player 1500pts thoughts? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 30 2013, 02:41

Paradoliak wrote:
At a glance, I'd say the main thing is you have a lot of upgrades that aren't really worth it. all the points you could find by shaving off upgrades could get you another unit probably.
Yeah, as I was putting it together it felt as though I was going a little overboard with the wargear.

Paradoliak wrote:
Klaivex are decent, but they're not great. They do add a tiny bit of staying power with their leadership value, which the ICs cover already, and they only add a bit of kill power for a high cost. I'd say that 4 plain Incubi would be better.
Paradoliak wrote:
Instead, try dropping the sybarite and his equipment for a single Splinter Cannon, which will give you another 4-6 Poison shots per turn at 36" range! 10 warriors with a Splinter Cannon in a Raider can put out a lot of hurt from a good distance.
Had some of the same thoughts, thanks for reaffirming.

Paradoliak wrote:
Your Wyches cannot take that many wych weapons.
Went back and re-read the codex and I completely misread that! Thanks for saving me from an embarassing situation! Embarassed 

Paradoliak wrote:
the only thing I'd say you're lacking is Anti-Vehicle (AV). Most of your units can go vehicle hunting, but it's not their main focus, assault or anti-infantry is. You might want to consider grabbing some dedicated AV, most likely a Ravager, which for 115 points shows up with a night shield and 3 Dark Lances!
Thanks I have alread readjusted and added a Ravager!

In fact since posting this, I think I am going to go with an Allied army with an Eldar Farseer and a simple Biker Squad for Troop choice, in order to get the Psyker abilities. After that I am pulling all upgades to the Troops and Incubi and getting more shooting abilities out of them. And since I am adding Eldar I am removing the Archon, may keep a Haemonculus in the background for some flavor here and there.
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New Player 1500pts thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Player 1500pts thoughts?   New Player 1500pts thoughts? I_icon_minitime

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