Using the Cypher dataslate

As far as I understand it (and I struggle to get my head round these dataslates) we CANNOT take him as a HQ in our primary detachment (but we could if we allied in IG and he was one of their HQ)

BUT

we can take the cypher formation with chaos chosen as a detachment (without requiring any other kind fo allies) but it will be subject to the desperate allies rules as they are from the chaos space marine faction.

Am I reading these rules right or can we just not take him at all in either context?

EDIT: Nevermind I think I've realised the problem now. Boooo

EDIT: ACTUALLY! To hell with this I have no idea if we can or not.. can anyone shed light on the dim corners of my mind?

Cyper + Chosen Chaos Space Marine formation can only be used in a CSM primary detachment.
Cypher alone:
"Can be added to an army whose primary detachment is... Sisters, Blood Angels, CSM, Grey Knights, Imp. Guard, Inquisition, Space Marines, and Space Wolves."

So no dice, we can't use him at all if you're talking about DE Primary.

Yeah the wording on Cypher alone was OK as I said but I found it nigh on indecipherable with who could take the formation, it made it sound like anyone could take it as it wasn't part of your primary detachment and just counted as the CSM faction for desperate ally purposes.

Ho Hum!!

I may have to put together a small CSM army just to take the formation and ally in dark eldar!!

Perhaps finish painting existing stuff first...

Ta Laughing Carp

Cheers mate, it's my Dark Angels buddy who cleared it up for me. My first army was CSM, then I got into DE so I may have to experiment!
Check out the Slaaneshi options in the CSM 'dex if you decide to get into it.

Well I've always been a massive fan of the Night Lords (do they have any special rules?), so might take an obligatory 2 units of regular CSM then 3 of raptors and then max the ally FOS with deldar.

Always liked how night lords aren't really chaos worshippers (at least in the fluff I have read) and are just general evil bar stewards

Sorry to bump this but I was just re-reading my Cypher data slate and read this section:

Formations do not count as your army’s Allied Detachment, even if they are made up of units
from a different Codex to your Primary Detachment, and they do not stop you from taking an
Allied Detachment in the same army. However, the Levels of Alliance rules from the
Warhammer 40,000 rulebook do apply to them and units chosen from a different codex that
are in the same army.

For example, if you included an Ork Formation in the same army as a Primary Detachment
from Codex: Space Marines, then the units from the two Detachments would treat each other
as desperate allies. However, the Ork Formation would not stop you taking an Allied
Detachment in the same army.

I read this as meaning that provided you are not come the apocalypse any primary detachment can take any formation. I.e. a Codex:Deldar army could take the Cypher formation which is a CSM faction and therefore treated as desperate allies?

Can anyone point me to an official FAQ or something that clarifies this or says its allowed in the rules?

Night Lords have the best fluff and paint scheme hands down, but no they don't have any special rules. Raptors are a fantastic unit though, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of them and people on Dakka forums view them well.

As for the re-read of the data slate, could be my friend was reading from his perspective as Dark Angels as to why he couldn't see them used as "allies". I haven't read that data slate or anything on formations myself at all, so I apologize if there was some miscommunication or error on my part!

Well I've procured a few bits and bobs of chaos so will probably have a 500pt army ready before you know it!

Hahaha i wouldn't worry, none of the staff at the local GWS had a clue how it worked either!

I think I have it right but will check with some TO whose event I plan to enter..

cheers monsieur Carp

In that case GLHF dude!
If you have any Qs about CSM, fire me a message and I'd be happy to share what I've learned.