WraithGuards in Raiders?

With the new edition i've been playing with the idea of putting wraithguards with d-scythes in raiders (as allies now can travel in each others transport and u can fire any template weapon anywhere from a open topped vehicle).

This would make a truly nasty surprise and even if the raider goes Boom! the wraithguards can take the hit and are just happy to be half-way across the battlefield.

Are there any problems with this tactic that i have overlooked?

Aside from having to start outside the vehicle, no, there are no real problems with this. Your opponent will do everything they can to stop you though, so expect drop pods and the like coming down to go straight for this unit if they have first turn.

I think D-scythe WG in a raider is waste, put them in a wave serpent. HOWEVER, I think Axe-Shield WG would be great in a raider as this allows you to assault out of them!

ligolski wrote:

I think D-scythe WG in a raider is waste, put them in a wave serpent. HOWEVER, I think Axe-Shield WG would be great in a raider as this allows you to assault out of them!

Yep! Elder now have an assault transport! Banshees everywhere cry out in joy as opposed to agonized death rattles of the last few editions.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

ligolski wrote:

I think D-scythe WG in a raider is waste, put them in a wave serpent. HOWEVER, I think Axe-Shield WG would be great in a raider as this allows you to assault out of them!

Yep! Elder now have an assault transport! Banshees everywhere cry out in joy as opposed to agonized death rattles of the last few editions.

Banshees sadly still suffer from the same frailty that we do and you don't see Wyches getting into combat from Raiders that easily!

I'm looking forward to Wraithblades assaulting out of Raiders. I wish I could have my Archon with them, then it would be unstoppable.

I've just got to figure out what unit takes the dedicated transport and then ends up having to footslog. I don't like running Warriors outside of raiders/venoms because they get ripped up by everything. Maybe I'll do 3 wracks and a hexrifle and hide them in cover?

I've never used wraithguard or wraithblades but I'm very interested in the new combination wraith+raider. What's the best weaponry we can give to wraith units riding a raider in your opinion? Cannons, Flamers or Axes?

orestes85 wrote:

I'm looking forward to Wraithblades assaulting out of Raiders.  I wish I could have my Archon with them, then it would be unstoppable.  

I've just got to figure out what unit takes the dedicated transport and then ends up having to footslog.  I don't like running Warriors outside of raiders/venoms because they get ripped up by everything.  Maybe I'll do 3 wracks and a hexrifle and hide them in cover?

that's easy.

Buy the wave serpent for the wraithguard, and then switch. I.e. your wyches/kabalites go in the waveserpent.

Interesting. I'm also considering this tactics these days: A Raider with five Wraithguards (remember its transport capacity is 10, in contrast to 12 of Wave Serpent, so we cannot bring HQ here).

I'm gonna use the unit in the similar way to use my Wracks in 6th Ed:
(i) Raider approaching an enemy as close as possible
(ii) disembarking and surrounding (called 'hak-ik-jin' or the crane wing formation in my country)
(iii) flame shower with D-Scythe/Liquifier Gun
(iv) and charge

Would you give me suggestions please?
Other better options? Wraithcannon, or Ghostaxe and Forceshield?

lelith wrote:

Interesting. I'm also considering this tactics these days: A Raider with five Wraithguards (remember its transport capacity is 10, in contrast to 12 of Wave Serpent, so we cannot bring HQ here).

I'm gonna use the unit in the similar way to use my Wracks in 6th Ed:
(i) Raider approaching an enemy as close as possible
(ii) disembarking and surrounding (called 'hak-ik-jin' or the crane wing formation in my country)
(iii) flame shower with D-Scythe/Liquifier Gun
(iv) and charge

Would you give me suggestions please?
Other better options? Wraithcannon, or Ghostaxe and Forceshield?

Or you could;

-(i) Tank shock the unit you intend to flame, getting them closer together
-(ii) Don't bother disembarking, just flame them from the raider edge of your choice, multiply that by 5, and you're done.

FishDeadDaemon wrote:

lelith wrote:

Interesting. I'm also considering this tactics these days: A Raider with five Wraithguards (remember its transport capacity is 10, in contrast to 12 of Wave Serpent, so we cannot bring HQ here).

I'm gonna use the unit in the similar way to use my Wracks in 6th Ed:
(i) Raider approaching an enemy as close as possible
(ii) disembarking and surrounding (called 'hak-ik-jin' or the crane wing formation in my country)
(iii) flame shower with D-Scythe/Liquifier Gun
(iv) and charge

Would you give me suggestions please?
Other better options? Wraithcannon, or Ghostaxe and Forceshield?

Or you could;

-(i) Tank shock the unit you intend to flame, getting them closer together
-(ii) Don't bother disembarking, just flame them from the raider edge of your choice, multiply that by 5, and you're done.

That seems cleverer. Thanks!

I think a unit of banshies with an attached phantasm archon for grenades will be very welcome for them. The 4+ armour will be great!

The thing I found with my limited experience is that ultimately you're -trying- to bait them into assaulting the raider or the unit to make them risk your D3 per Wraithguard flamer hit. In my opinion, leaving a half-intact unit in CC range of your raider is dangerous bait for them. If they continue to shoot it, they risk you getting away with either no hits due to jinking, or at the worst a wounded unit of wraithguard on the ground in wreckage with overwatch. If they charge the raider they're getting 5-15 hits with no armor save and then only at best sinking the ship. If they do nothing, you can move on and continue to harass units with a sudo-'torrent' flamer.

However, I'd still upgrade the raider. Shadow + Flickers and maybe aetherer sails are a must.

wraiths in raiders are hard :/ 5 of them takes up all the spot no spiritseer no archon no autarch to screw around, maybe in a tantalus, but nonetheless wraithblades hit like hell if they survive the shooting

Nightshields for assault raider? Waste of pts IMHO. You WANT him to be close. FF - a necessity. :-)

yeah plain 60 point raider max 5 point for snares or aethersails and lets swoop ahead

Dont forget the ShockProw so you can tankshock units from cover if the INI is worth it. But that may not be the case for WB or D-Scythe WG. Not sure on the ini and equip of WB.

I don't think that Wraithblades without a friendly Spiritseer to provide them buffs are worth it. May be SS can ride in a nearby vehicle, get out and cast his 12" bubble of joy...

Cannons would be better with Wave Serpent and Seer or two attached. They provide re-rolls (Which isn't even a psychic power), and one can dedicate himself to Telepathy, possible getting Shroud/Invisibility, while another one gets 2 rolls and primaris power of Battle.

For the loadout, i'd definitely pick the axes for Inv save and ap2. They can take the hits.

Tantalus a darn expansive wraithtransport 16 slot so it carries like 6-7 and plenty ICs like Archons and Spiritseers to wreck faces

It's a Forgeworld model, which are banned in most tournaments. And if FW is allowed, your best bet would be Pulse Laser Hornets (but i'm not saying that Tantalii cannot complement Hornets).

If we get those in our new codex, this trick might be actually quite useful.

Skari wrote:

I think a unit of banshies with an attached phantasm archon for grenades will be very welcome for them. The 4+ armour will be great!

Yup especially when your opponent will be going dead last and taking those huskblade and ap3 fun stuff. Although it could be expensive, id just bring a tantalus with blasterborn and shoot everything to hell. Especially 3 5-man squads with blasters that'd just obliterate anything in its path

Can't you just take an empty Raider as a fast attack choice and then have the Wraithblades jump in it, so you don't have to worry about footslogging Kabalites or Wyches or having to put them in a Wave Serpent? Wouldn't Kabalites and Wyches be wasted in a Wave Serpent since it's not open topped and they can't shoot or assault out of it? I know you can have empty Venoms as fast attack choices, and you could have Spiritseers hop in one of them to follow the Wraithblade Raider and maybe a Wave Serpent with Wraithguard or two.

Yes, you can, but if you'll notice the dates on these posts they predate our new codex.

Ah, I saw that, but I thought we could take empty vehicles prior to the new codex.

Nope, that's only allowed in codexes post space wolves (as far as I know).