New FAQs now available.

Page 136 of "The Rules". 1st paragraph on the page.

WWP still no assaulty

Devilogical wrote:

Only unit with Power from pain will get benefits from pain tokens. So no FnP or FC on allied Farseer.

Hm, special rule fearless: If at least one model in the unit has this special rule,
the complete unit is treated fearless.

Has that changed from 6th to 7th? If not, a farseer does benefit from pain tokens.

Starkadder wrote:

Devilogical wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

Why not? When the special rule says, if at least one model in the unit has it...

Only unit with Power from pain will get benefits from pain tokens. So no FnP or FC on allied Farseer.

Yes but potentially on a Farseer if he joins a Dark Eldar unit that has pain tokens (see longer post above...)

If Farsser doesn`t have PfP he will not benefit from pain token.

Q:When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain
and some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to
every model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from
Pain special rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

But fearless, well, probably it does. But not FnP and FC for sure

Even when the special rule declares the exact opposite?
Don't forget, the FnP Rule was made in 5th, where fearless didn't work on the entire unit.

Forget it. I haven't read your last line...

Devilogical wrote:

Starkadder wrote:

Devilogical wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

Why not? When the special rule says, if at least one model in the unit has it...

Only unit with Power from pain will get benefits from pain tokens. So no FnP or FC on allied Farseer.

Yes but potentially on a Farseer if he joins a Dark Eldar unit that has pain tokens (see longer post above...)

If Farsser doesn`t have PfP he will not benefit from pain token.

Q:When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain
and some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to
every model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from
Pain special rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

But fearless, well, probably it does. But not FnP and FC for sure

Well, they seem to have removed that part From the FAQ

Hey guys,

I'm a big fan of Harlequins but I'm a bit nervous about the new rules. I bought the rulebook but haven't thoroughly read it yet. If I'm not mistaken, the Shadowseer in a DE list is now next to useless. If she's the only Psyker in my DE army, how will I ever get the power succesfully cast?
Is the Shadowseer unplayable without a Farseer?

I'm posting this in the FAQ discussion because I read there that the Seer is now a Psyker as in the Eldar rulebook (needs to roll a psychic test instead of casting automatically).

Mayk0l wrote:

If she's the only Psyker in my DE army, how will I ever get the power succesfully cast?
Is the Shadowseer unplayable without a Farseer?

Is it that difficult to get a leadership roll through? Or am I missing something?

Devilogical wrote:

Starkadder wrote:

Devilogical wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

Why not? When the special rule says, if at least one model in the unit has it...

Only unit with Power from pain will get benefits from pain tokens. So no FnP or FC on allied Farseer.

Yes but potentially on a Farseer if he joins a Dark Eldar unit that has pain tokens (see longer post above...)

If Farsser doesn`t have PfP he will not benefit from pain token.

Q:When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain
and some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to
every model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from
Pain special rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

But fearless, well, probably it does. But not FnP and FC for sure

Yes, but that is the 6th ed. FAQ..? Presumably that is now to be ignored entirely given a 7th edition one has been issued.

At its heart from a RAW point of view, the issue is whether or not a dark eldar unit with a farseer in is still a dark eldar unit. See above...

If I'm not mistaken, in 7th edition, the opponent gets to dispell your spells with their dice. Seeing as we'll only have one Psyker max (the Shadowseer, assuming no Eldar in our army), we'll always be outrolled, making her unreliable at best, useless in the worst.

Ups, didn't know that. I don't have the new rule book. Kind of a money problem, for the moment.

Mayk0l wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm a big fan of Harlequins but I'm a bit nervous about the new rules. I bought the rulebook but haven't thoroughly read it yet. If I'm not mistaken, the Shadowseer in a DE list is now next to useless. If she's the only Psyker in my DE army, how will I ever get the power succesfully cast?
Is the Shadowseer unplayable without a Farseer?

I'm posting this in the FAQ discussion because I read there that the Seer is now a Psyker as in the Eldar rulebook (needs to roll a psychic test instead of casting automatically).

It shouldn't be too hard.  Remember that the opposition needs a 6+ to deny your power.  Given that this is the only power we have access to in our own codex you can afford to throw all of your warpcharge (D6 dice plus 1 for the Shadowseer) at getting it off (unless you want to keep some for denial purposes).

That's an average of 4.5 WC points, around 2 of which will 'pass' on average.  That means your opponent has to throw two 6s to cancel it out (DTW bonuses don't apply when you're counteracting blessings).  Have a look in the new BRB - it's not something I'd be concerned about. If they're throwing that many dice at denying your Shadowseer they're not going to be manifesting many powers of their own...

It will be harder for sure. Now say you roll d6 and get a 4. Add the Shadowseer and you have 5 dice to cast the power.

Daemon player gets 4 + all mastery levels to Deny rolls. lol He/she will be able to roll a few 6s.

In any case, you will want to throw all 5 dice at the power. Just so someone can't "Deny" your power. That leaves you open to more chance of perils.

In all honesty, Shadowseers may be shelved by me

Dethric wrote:

Also it seems like we can no longer Tank Shock or Ram, at all. We do not have anything with the "tank" type. Which is a requirement

What's the wording and how would it interact with a Shock Prow?

Edit: and wtfomg my sig line!

Mayk0l wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, in 7th edition, the opponent gets to dispell your spells with their dice. Seeing as we'll only have one Psyker max (the Shadowseer, assuming no Eldar in our army), we'll always be outrolled, making her unreliable at best, useless in the worst.

I'm not sure.  It really depends on the opponent.

On average we'll have 4 dice to attempt, which should equate to two successes.  That *should* take 12 dice (averages again) to block. Which means they'll likely need to have 8 mastery levels in their army..

Starkadder wrote:

Have a look in the new BRB - it's not something I'd be concerned about.  If they're throwing that many dice at denying your Shadowseer they're not going to be manifesting many powers of their own...

Because the psychic dice are reset every player turn, they really don't have a reason not to roll every single die they have to try and block.

Dethdispenser wrote:

It will be harder for sure. Now say you roll d6 and get a 4. Add the Shadowseer and you have 5 dice to cast the power.

Daemon player gets 4 + all mastery levels to Deny rolls. lol He/she will be able to roll a few 6s.

In any case, you will want to throw all 5 dice at the power. Just so someone can't "Deny" your power. That leaves you open to more chance of perils.

In all honesty, Shadowseers may be shelved by me

I doubt many players are going to throw that many dice at trying to deny your veil of tears. Especially a Daemon player who will most likely be relying on assault and so won't care about its effects!

Like I say, worst case scenario they throw a lot of dice at it - this means less for their other powers. They only get one chance at deciding how many dice to throw at it so if they go for an opportunistic one and fail they can't keep coming back for more.

Their assault stuff still needs to be cast in their psycher phase. Most psycher powers last until their next phase. So the deny dice are just that. They can and will throw all the dice at it.

If it's your only psychic power there is no reason why they wouldn't throw all their DTW dice at it. Also, 8 is not that much. I played against an unbound 2250 point Daemons and Astra Militarum list for my first game of 7th, and he had 13 mastery levels.

Thor665 wrote:

Dethric wrote:

Also it seems like we can no longer Tank Shock or Ram, at all. We do not have anything with the "tank" type. Which is a requirement

What's the wording and how would it interact with a Shock Prow?

Edit: and wtfomg my sig line!

"When moving a vehicle with the Tank type, the player can declare that it is going to attempt to Tank Shock or Ram instead"

Does that not prevent ramming since nothing we have are tanks according to the FAQ?

Under Shock Prow:

"To represent this, a vehicle with a Shock Prow can Tank Shock enemy units. It counts it's front armour value as D3 higher than usual when ramming enemy vehicles(roll each time a ramming attempt is made)."

So yes, as i see it we can Tank Shock and ram with a Shock Prow.

Well, if you wanted to go pedantic and RAW the Shock Prow grants the ability to tank shock, but not to ram.

I suspect most people will allow both unless they're whiny.

Dethdispenser wrote:

Their assault stuff still needs to be cast in their psycher phase. Most psycher powers last until their next phase. So the deny dice are just that. They can and will throw all the dice at it.

Yes, but their warp charges are generated per game turn so they still have to choose between expending largely pointless WC for the pleasure of denying you an average blessing or ensuring they get their assault buffs off.

This is a huge non-issue.

If you're playing against someone who is willing to throw 6 dice at you for a 50/50 shot of cancelling veil of tears, and you still lose, then you have all sorts of other issues to worry about!

Starkadder wrote:

Dethdispenser wrote:

It will be harder for sure. Now say you roll d6 and get a 4. Add the Shadowseer and you have 5 dice to cast the power.

Daemon player gets 4 + all mastery levels to Deny rolls. lol He/she will be able to roll a few 6s.

In any case, you will want to throw all 5 dice at the power. Just so someone can't "Deny" your power. That leaves you open to more chance of perils.

In all honesty, Shadowseers may be shelved by me

I doubt many players are going to throw that many dice at trying to deny your veil of tears.  Especially a Daemon player who will most likely be relying on assault and so won't care about its effects!  

Like I say, worst case scenario they throw a lot of dice at it - this means less for their other powers.  They only get one chance at deciding how many dice to throw at it so if they go for an opportunistic one and fail they can't keep coming back for more.

Warp charge are generated at the beginning of each psychic phase so they will be able to throw all of their dice at it. When it's their psychic phase they will come back.

Shadowseers will actually be better against some armies, but pointless against others. So I wouldn't shelve them just yet.

Still no clarification on Aerial Assault.

Rule Book Pg 33: "If a special rule doesn't specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at Ballistic Skill 1."

FAQ: "A ravager that moves at cruising speed may fire all of its weapons using its crews full ballistic skill."

So RAW Aerial Assault does nothing because it does not specifically state that it ignores snap shots for firing a 3rd weapon on a fast vehicle that moves cruising speed.

Tittliewinks22 wrote:

Still no clarification on Aerial Assault.

Rule Book Pg 33: "If a special rule doesn't specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at Ballistic Skill 1."

FAQ: "A ravager that moves at cruising speed may fire all of its weapons using its crews full ballistic skill."

So RAW Aerial Assault does nothing because it does not specifically state that it ignores snap shots for firing a 3rd weapon on a fast vehicle that moves cruising speed.

Good question.

Tittliewinks22 wrote:

Still no clarification on Aerial Assault.

Rule Book Pg 33: "If a special rule doesn't specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at Ballistic Skill 1."

FAQ: "A ravager that moves at cruising speed may fire all of its weapons using its crews full ballistic skill."

So RAW Aerial Assault does nothing because it does not specifically state that it ignores snap shots for firing a 3rd weapon on a fast vehicle that moves cruising speed.

I don't think it would need to be clarified since it isn't being snap shot.