Ravagers useless in 7th?

doomseer11b wrote:

They do however, scare our opponents still.  I have always said from the time I truly learned how to play DE, that a BIG part of our army is scare tactics.  Learning to play the OPPONENT, more than the models hes fielding.  With that being said, people still HATE our lances and cant seem to help but shoot at our ravagers.  Its an annoyance that HAS to be dealt with.  Theyre still worth their points in the mere fact that it allows our other troops to get across the board.  I will be fielding one or two just for people to shoot at pretty much, also to cause snap shots.  

 I face Eldar the other night and ran my raiders right to him, 1 bit the dust but the others gave him -3 to his leadership for 2 of his troops, I caused a leadership with 4 venoms firing and they ran off the board.  5 point upgrades and BAM crippled him.

EDIT: and to add to the ravager situation, I have recently started running dissy ravagers instead, leaving the tank busting completely to my wyches, it has done pretty well.  

All three of those, yes. And now Ollie Williams with the Dark Eldar Forecast.

WE'RE PERFECTLY FINE!!!

So what's the verdict?

It seems that DLs are more about chipping away bits of a vehicle, such as immobilize, stripping away of weapons, and Haywires wreck the vehicle outright.

Lance weaponry has aged a little but ravagers are still the best place to access ranged anti tank for dark elder. I'm down to taking two currently. I did drop to one but brought it back a couple games later. There's just too many units I need to touch at range and first blood win's games. Ravagers are not useless but they do need support.

Brom wrote:

Ravagers are not useless but they do need support.

What do you support them with?

A clear base

doomseer11b wrote:

A clear base

  

I've always packed my army with as much Haywire as possible and filled my Ravagers with Dissintegrator cannons, anyway. Lances have, in sixth edition, only ever removed one HP from a tank for me. A single Farseer has done more to a Land Raider in one game with my CWE than Lances have for my DE.

We can get good AT from other sources, but Lances are still viable to people without my bad luck.

Quote :

The sky isnt falling peeps, we just need to think outside the box. We have always had an outside the box army.

I agree with this completely. I would not be interested in DE at all if every army just spammed the same unit to fulfill the same goals.

The Shredder wrote:

Brom wrote:

Ravagers are not useless but they do need support.

What do you support them with?

Beasts, haywire, grots. I also play heavily for objectives and secondary objectives. I rarely win by killing things.

Brom wrote:

Beasts, haywire, grots. I also play heavily for objectives and secondary objectives. I rarely win by killing things.

Ah, I thought you were talking about supporting them on the first turn.

I was trying to work out what other long-range anti-vehicle weapons you were using.

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

Zenotaph wrote:

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

Wait, can Voidravens start on the field now?   

Not on turn one, I think. But after turn two, they should kick ...

Zenotaph wrote:

Not on turn one, I think. But after turn two, they should kick ...

Unless pretty much anything with skyfire and interceptor has knocked them out of the sky, which is sadly all too easy to do.

Does interceptor work on flyers now? Damn, I didn't know that...

Zenotaph wrote:

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

I've had quite good results with the Voidraven recently. The changes to vehicle damage mean you've actually got to put a reasonable amount of fire into it to knock it out of the sky.

Far and away the best way to kill vehicles in this edition is to glance them to death (I think it was the same in 6e). The AV11 makes a big difference as a unit of Marines can't down you through massed bolter fire...

Starkadder wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

I've had quite good results with the Voidraven recently.  The changes to vehicle damage mean you've actually got to put a reasonable amount of fire into it to knock it out of the sky.

Far and away the best way to kill vehicles in this edition is to glance them to death (I think it was the same in 6e).  The AV11 makes a big difference as a unit of Marines can't down you through massed bolter fire...

\

I plan on buying two Razorwing jetfighters to use as void ravens today. I won't be wasting my moneys will I ?

django_unchained wrote:

Starkadder wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

I've had quite good results with the Voidraven recently.  The changes to vehicle damage mean you've actually got to put a reasonable amount of fire into it to knock it out of the sky.

Far and away the best way to kill vehicles in this edition is to glance them to death (I think it was the same in 6e).  The AV11 makes a big difference as a unit of Marines can't down you through massed bolter fire...

\

I plan on buying two Razorwing jetfighters to use as void ravens today. I won't be wasting my moneys will I ?

That rather depends on whether a new codex is iminent, whether there are any changes to the Voidraven and whether they finally produce a Voidraven model!

Yeah, I agree. I don't plan on buying anything till our new codex gets released. Wanted to buy a khymera squad, but who knows what GW has in mind.

well I've heard it will be a good year before the Dark eldar codex is released so...

Count Adhemar wrote:

django_unchained wrote:

Starkadder wrote:

Zenotaph wrote:

So, I ask again. Why not use a 36" weapon, with S9, AP2 and special rule lance?

I've had quite good results with the Voidraven recently.  The changes to vehicle damage mean you've actually got to put a reasonable amount of fire into it to knock it out of the sky.

Far and away the best way to kill vehicles in this edition is to glance them to death (I think it was the same in 6e).  The AV11 makes a big difference as a unit of Marines can't down you through massed bolter fire...

\

I plan on buying two Razorwing jetfighters to use as void ravens today. I won't be wasting my moneys will I ?

That rather depends on whether a new codex is iminent, whether there are any changes to the Voidraven and whether they finally produce a Voidraven model!

Sorry, should've clarified. I meant performance wise would they be a waste of money? Also, you can easily WYSIWYG the razorwing jetfighter as the void raven. They both have a pair of lances, and up to 4 missles.

But yea, I meant are they worthwhile on the table? I'm fielding mine with 3 Shatterfield missles and a flickerfield

I thoroughly enjoy my Razorwing with Dizzies, SC and 4x Necrotoxin missiles.

Tried a Voidraven before that but didn't really find it fitting my list.

I like to run a razorwing with dizzies in casual games sometimes for fun but in a competitive scene I have to go with 3 ravagers.

Our fliers are expensive, miss at least one turn of the game and are unreliable.

Just my experience tho.

Painjunky wrote:

I like to run a razorwing with dizzies in casual games sometimes but in a competitive scene I have to go with 3 ravagers.

Our fliers are expensive, miss at least one turn of the game and are unreliable.

Just my experience tho.

I ran a pair of void ravens yesterday, and they were absolutely insane. Their str 7 large blast missles are decent anti vehicle, and amazing anti infantry. With the new vehicle rules, they're insanely tough to bring down, and usually they'll come on unload some payload, get stunned fly off into ongoing reserves, and come on the next turn. They're pretty diesel. I think they're in a better place right now than our ravagers are...

django_unchained wrote:

Painjunky wrote:

I like to run a razorwing with dizzies in casual games sometimes but in a competitive scene I have to go with 3 ravagers.

Our fliers are expensive, miss at least one turn of the game and are unreliable.

Just my experience tho.

I ran a pair of void ravens yesterday, and they were absolutely insane. Their str 7 large blast missles are decent anti vehicle, and amazing anti infantry. With the new vehicle rules, they're insanely tough to bring down, and usually they'll come on unload some payload, get stunned fly off into ongoing reserves, and come on the next turn. They're pretty diesel. I think they're in a better place right now than our ravagers are...

I might have to try a pair of these although value wise I dont see them being better than 2 ravagers which is almost what one costs. The ability to drop 4-8 large blasts upon arrival is pretty good to situationally game breaking. Usually we dont really lack in the anti infantry department though. Hmm you have me stewing on this now brother!

Void Raven Bombers are easily the shizl, my nizzles.  They are NOT cheap but as more flyers have arrived and their prices revealed, I feel more and more like they are worthy aerial combatants.

And as aforementioned by others, the devastation they can cause in just one round is nothing short of awesome now that they can fire four missiles in a turn.

Ravagers are far cheaper though and I really like Disintegrators so... Depends on what needs the list has already handled right?