1750 all comers

Hi guys
After a long absence I'm back on the battlefield, more bloodthirsty and noob than ever.
Here's my list; critics are more than welcomed as always.

HQ:
Archon: Venom Blade, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Phantasm Grenades Launcher

Elites:  
4 Incubi: Klaivex, Demiklaives, Murderous Assault
10 Kabalite Trueborn: 2 splinter cannon
10 Kabalite Trueborn: 2 splinter cannon

Troops:
10 Kabalite Warriors:  Sybarite, Splinter Cannon
10 Kabalite Warriors:  Sybarite, Splinter Cannon
5 Wyches: Haywire grenades
5 Wyches: Haywire grenades
5 Wyches: Haywire grenades

Dedicated Transports:
Raider: Splinter Racks, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: Splinter Racks, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Venom: Splinter Cannon
Venom: Splinter Cannon
Venom: Splinter Cannon
Venom: Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support:
Razorwing Jetfighter: Night Shields, Flickerfield, 4 Necrotoxin Missile

tot. 1748

You have 4 lance shots and 3 small units of haywyches to take out vehicles. That's not a lot. I think a mech list would give you problems. For example:

HQs(205):
1 Haemonculus w/ venom blade & Liquifier gun
1 Archon w/ Shadow Field, Power sword, Soul Trap, Agonizer, Combat Drugs

Troops(630):
4x 3-man wracks squads in dual cannon venoms
2x 5-man wyches w/haywires in dual cannon venoms

Elites(536):
2x 4-man Trueborn squads w/blasters in raiders with dissies
1x 4-man Grotesques squad in a raider with dissies

Heavy Support(375):
2x Ravagers w/ flickerfields
1x Razorwing Jetfighter

TOTAL: 1746

The haemy and archon would go with the grots, of course.

Our lists are similar, using the same army, but yours isn't exactly optimized. For instance, trueborn cost 3 points more than warriors each, but if they don't have special weapons, they're just about the same. So, by getting 10 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons, you just paid a 30 point tax to take 10 warriors who are only taking 1 additional splinter cannon(plus the cost of the cannon, of course). Further, trueborn will never be as good at firing those cannons as venoms are, because venoms are relentless, whereas trueborn have to use the 4-shot profile instead of 6 most of the time. Anyhow, down to the maths:

Your list has:
110 Splinter shots at varying ranges, and some with rerolls to hit.
4 Lance shots coming from 3 vehicles.
3 Small units with haywire grenades.
A decent, but low toughness CC unit.

My example has:
72 Splinter shots, all at 36".
16 Lance shots
9  Disintegrator Shots
2 Small units with haywire grenades
A decent, toughness 5 CC unit with feel no pain and furious charge.(2 pain tokens)

So, basically, you could give up about 25% of your splinter shots, and 1 haywyches unit to get four times as many lance shots, 9 free S5 AP2 shots(Good against TEQ), and a significantly stronger CC unit.

Venoms are, point for point, simply the most effective platform for splinter fire that we have, in my opinion.

P.S. Welcome back!

I bow to your superior wisdom m8, I'll try your version!
ps.
it's good to be back tyvm
pps.
What you mean for dissies? disintegrator cannons?

BetrayTheWorld, I really like your list as well. Looks like you've got everything covered. I'm going to give it a try. Never thought of that Blasterborn in Raider but it looks like a smart idea.

I too bow to your wisdom.

(Snorri, yep he means disintegrator cannons)

orestes85 wrote:

 (Snorri, yep he means disintegrator cannons)

Ok thanks

@Betray, you made some great min-maxing to that list. I would like to add to this that putting some wracks in a raider would give you a 3HP OS transport. Sure you would miss out on the free Flickerfield but 3HP with the current jink seems worth it.
I do like the idea of putting both the agonizer and power weapon on the Archon but is it worth the investment in redundancy? You still don't have any answers to 2+ save unit with mobility. Or do you have the experience that this amount of dissies will do the job?
They would inflict about 3 wounds to TEQ. If you still have blance shots at your disposal they could help out and certainly push the TEQ into cover.
Many thanks for the food for thought.

@Betray, I also feel like your list looks really strong and is something I would like to try out for myself.  One question though.  If you had to cut your list down to 1500 points (which is my local meta's preferred point limit), what would you remove while still keeping the force strong enough to be a viable TAC list?

sweetbacon wrote:

@Betray, I also feel like your list looks really strong and is something I would like to try out for myself.  One question though.  If you had to cut your list down to 1500 points (which is my local meta's preferred point limit), what would you remove while still keeping the force strong enough to be a viable TAC list?

Honestly, I don't think list-building works that way. I'd basically be starting from scratch if I was building a 1500 point list instead of a 1750 list.

That being said, I'd probably get rid of the archon if I HAD to modify this list for a lower point value. Would still have to come up with about 100 more points, which you could do by dropping one of several different things.

Personally, as point values get smaller, I tend to become more and more likely to lean on a vehicle spam list. Example:

HQ:
Haemonculus w/ Venom blade
Troops:
6x 3-man wracks squads
Elite:
3x 4-man trueborn squads w/4 blasters
Heavy:
2 Ravagers
1 Razorwing Jetfighter
Transports:
9 Venoms w/ dual splinter cannons

TOTAL: 1499

This list has:
20 darklight shots(8 lances, 12 blasters).
108 Splinter shots from venoms
4 Missiles from the jetfighter.

The wracks are OKish for CC, but unless it's getting you an objective, or serving some other tactical purpose, you primarily just want to shoot your opponent with this list. Your infantry isn't BAD at CC, but none of them are particularly great at it either. The only time wracks should really disembark is to sit on an objective, or to keep a dangerous unit from charging your vehicles.

Not sure if this type of list is something you are able/interested in running, but feel free to use it if you like it.

@Betray, wow, that list looks really strong. Actually, I'd never really given much thought to wracks before but it seems like they allow one to play an awesome MSU-type list while, as you have demonstrated, still allowing you to pack quite a punch in the shooting phase. I am going to give this list a try and let you know how it works. Thanks very much for taking the time to modify it to a lower point threshold! Great work!

Question, would you advise trying to free up a few points to take HWG on the Blasterborn as a kind of fail safe/back up to their darklight shots?

sweetbacon wrote:

Question, would you advise trying to free up a few points to take HWG on the Blasterborn as a kind of fail safe/back up to their darklight shots?

That list is running pretty lean(ie, no upgrades), so to free up points you'd be losing a unit somewhere. With that being the case, no, I don't think I'd trade a venom and a unit of wracks to get HWG on the trueborn. But if YOU wanted to, it wouldn't be a terrible decision.

If you did so, getting rid of 3 wracks and a venom, you could have HWG on all the trueborn and have 72 points left, which you could use for various upgrades for your vehicles/units, or you could use 60 points of it to convert 2 of the 3-man wracks squads to 5-man wyches squads with haywires, and have 12 points left for upgrades. If you did that, I'd suggest putting grisly trophies on the transports that are carrying the wyches with that 12 points.

Great advice! I think I will try a game out with the HWG Blasterborn and see if the extra HWG point cost is needed or if it is just a waste of point. Thanks very much for all of your recommendations, Betray.