Building up my Dark Eldar force in 7th Edition

Hello fellow Dark Kin,

Hope everyone is having a nice Tuesday evening! (Damn! I broke-character fast). I was hoping you guys could give me a bit of input and insight into building my 1500pt army.
I am looking to create a combat focussed list (I know, sub-optimal) as I far prefer this play style, it just suits me better and doesn’t punish me quite as badly when the red-misted tunnel vision starts to grab hold!
Below is this list I have so far, which contains my current collection and I hope to form the basis of my list with. I am more than open to changes to what already exists, though they are built WYSIWYG so the less the better when it comes to my sanity! Open to all suggestions including allies and additions of ranged elements.

Heamonculus w/ Liquifier Gun and Venom Blade

3 Grotesques, including 1 Abberation w/ Venom Blade
Transport: Raider (w/ Aethersails?)

10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquifier Guns
Transport: Raider (w/ Aethersails?)
5 Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades
Transport: Venom w/ Dual Splinter cannons
5 Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades
Transport: Venom w/ Dual Splinter cannons

2 Beastmasters w/ 10 Khymerae

Talos w/ Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun
Talos w/ Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun

Current Total: 1039pts

So that is what I have so far, my own initial thoughts for the rest of the list are:
• Another 1-2 squads of Haywire Wyches?
• Beefing up the beastpack to 15 or even 20 Khymerae?
• I am completely lacking anti-air, though from what I have read on here most players seem to just take that on the chin
• The Taloi don’t particularly mesh well with the greater movement and speed of the rest of the list, but I would love to keep them if I could – I have the old models from my younger years and am quite fond of them!
• I lack significant ranged anti-tank, but feel I may be able to forego this if I increase the number of Wyche squads and accept that second turn will be the time to shine in that department.

Would love to hear your suggestions,

Thanks

ST

Ok I'll bite. From top to bottom:

HQs
I would like to see a second choice here, either another haemon or a killy archon, and put both with the grots. The second haemon is cheap, confers fearless with the third token, and brings a 3rd liquifier among other things. Either way I would also highly recommend flesh gauntlet, vexator mask and mindphase gauntlet. These things are killer on ICs and multi wound units/models.

Elites
Grotesques I really feel need to be 4 strong. I have tried 3 multiple times before and it just doesnt work the same, unless your running more than one unit of them which I have but I still prefer one unit of 4.
I also suggest liquifier and flesh gauntlet here for a total of 2-3 of each in the unit. The budget version with only a VB is ok but it falls flat against the big targets where a tooled up grot squad can step to them. Take for example flesh hounds, TWC, WKs and so on. Flesh gauntlets really wreck these units. A huskblade archon rounds the unit out nicely with the ability to tank S10 and ID hits and strike first with his own ID potential. The only bummer is you don't start with fearless without the 2nd haemon unless the archons drugs confer it. Its a toss up and both have their merits. Double haemies is cheaper and nearly as killy with all the FGs plus the other arcane wargear they bring.

Troops
Wracks I really find hard to like, so here is where I would suggest some major change. They really are just worse grots. Consider something a little more surgical in their place, like 5 incubi. These guys dont like midfield but they will hunt backfield units all day and excel at digging units out that would otherwise take inordinate amounts of firepower and attention to get rid of. I run mine in a venom but a raider is just as viable and gives you room for yet another haemonculus if you like plus it doubles as a backup ride for the grots.

Wyches look fine although you may consider switching their rides with the wracks/incubi. That way you arent delivering your main source of splinter shots up close and you get a more durable transport, in theory. On your AT comment I feel more wyches do help the effectiveness of haywire by saturation but I would still look to include some form of ranged anti tank. Being able to pop at least 1-2 transports just prior to assault is light years ahead of being forced to assault a transport.

FA
Beasts look fine at that size although they could really stand to have at least a couple RWF to deal out damage since you aren't packing the baron for hit & run. Also without a babysitter to confer fearless I would keep them around that size/cost and also get a couple grisly trophies hanging about so they dont panic.

HS
If you keep the taloi I would consider chain flails and tl heat lances on both instead. These guys really just need to run turn 1, maybe even 2. From there they threaten everything with the highest of 2 x d6 +1 S7 ap 2 attacks and a TL melta lance. They must be dealt with. Dont give yourself the chance to make mistakes like taking pot shots at infantry. It invalidates their purpose. Besides, shooting things with a S4 flamer and one splinter cannon just isnt what a s7 t7 MC wants to be doing.

For additions you could really use some lances. A single ravager might find itself dead pretty quick but its your best source. Two would be ideal if you can part with a talos. I feel ranged anti tank is key to making an assault army tick. Not a gunline but just enough to give you targets to assault in a mechanized force.
Anyway a flyer is the other option since there are less answers to flyers and it can answer opposing flyers although I've never been impressed with flyers even cron air.
Either one would help with anti tank although obviously the flyer wouldnt come on until turn 2 at the earliest and has less shots. If you go that route I would consider the voidraven for av11 and 2 s9 + S7 shatterfield missiles since they can either smash infantry clusters or double as light anti tank. I'd personally take the ravager(s).

Thats what I got..

Brom gives solid advices!
About antitank (and extra anti horde) i'd just take 2 Razorwing Jetfighter. You are covered in AA, AT and and can threathen every corner of the board. If you are not scared by air, just go with 2 ravager, one with darklances, one with disintegrators. dakkadakkadakka!!!
Talos can be good to hold midfield or home objectives. Strong and scary enough. one could, however, be swapped (alongside wracks) for 5 incubi and a killy archon to put with Haemy and Grots. that way you have 2 very nasty cc units, supporting each other.
Then you could add a beastmaster and 2 razorwing flocks. nasty nasty nasty, i tell you!

I personally like the idea of a Talos and a Cronos, rather than two of either. The Cronos seems like it's inferior, but actually it's just as tough and still attacks at AP2. The weapons it packs are great for clearing units off objectives too, as if they're marines you'll probably kill one and give a nearby unit a pain token to charge them with. If they're weaker than marines, you could even wipe out the squad or send them packing. Just a thought there.

You're right, most of us take lack of anti-air on the chin. What's great about the Ravager is that because it's firing three dark lances, you have a one in six chance of hitting a flyer, and if it's firing at something that's not going to have better armour than twelve your opponent is likely to jink if it doesn't have any other kind of save. So if you lack better targets, you can close down their effectiveness anyway by making them snap shoot. At least, that's my thinking on it. A Ravager could really help with ranged anti-tank in this list too.

Generally I'd agree with a lot of what Brom said, definitely think about adding Razorwing flocks to the beasts. I actually like Wracks myself, but if you want to up the close combat killing potential Incubi will do that for you. Wracks have taken a huge hit with the arrival of 7th, as they no longer get poison re-rolls against an enemy just for equaling their strength - now they have to beat it. Even with Furious Charge, they won't get it against marines.

In terms of your HQs, like Brom says again, add a second. I would go with a killy Archon myself, as I don't think the Grots have the raw killing power without him, with no access to AP2. They are really just meat shields for him or light vehicle trashers. You can always add a second Haemonculus if you want to anyway as you can field up to three as a single choice.

I personally would take Haywire Scourges before I took a ravager. And I have no issues with your Talos although Brom's load out is fun. You want Splinter Cannon Liquifier on Talos most times to get that FNP quick. Yes boost the beast pack. Add another HQ to join the Grots.
So for me
HQ - likely tooled archon
Extra Grot
More Beasts
Haywire Scourges

And I would be running warriors in a raider w/dissies over wracks in a venom.

I really dig that idea duck, I hadn't even considered scourges. I would opt for the full squad with heat lances though personally, and still take the ravager.

Thanks for the input guys, I see where you are all coming from, definatly need something more to support me on the way in.

I am wondering if, in order to maximise the amount of ranged-support (and first turn vehicle killing), if it might be worth giving the Taloi Twin-Linked haywires as well? Whilst they won't be as efficient in getting FNP early they stand to be a lower priority target compared to what they could be in other lists. With the Grots, Wracks and Beasts played very aggressively.

I fiddled around a bit with having a tooled up Archon, but it was really shutting down my points and limiting what could be done elsewhere in the list. So for now I have gone with two Heams.

Haemonculus w/ Liquifier Gun and Flesh Gauntlet
Haemonculus w/ Liquifier Gun and Venom Blade

4 Grotesques including Abberation w/ Flesh Gauntlet
Transport: Raider w/ Aethersails

10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquifier Guns
Transport: Raider w/ Aethersails
5 Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades
Transport: Venom w/ Dual Splinter cannons
5 Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades
Transport: Venom w/ Dual Splinter cannons

3 Beastmasters w/ 10 Khymerae and 2 Razorwing Flocks
5 Scourges w/ 2 Haywire Blasters
5 Scourges w/ 2 Haywire Blasters

Talos w/ Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster, Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun
Talos w/ Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster, Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun

1481pts

My thoughts
• Twin-Linked Liquifiers on the Taloi keep them in contention with massed infantry, the Haywire gives them flexibility if any vehicles need to be taken out of the game in the first and second turns. This coupled with the Scourges gives 6 Haywire shots per turn, so has a pretty reliable chance of taking out at least one vehicle a turn.
• The Flesh Gauntlet on the Grot and one Haem allows the unit to take on multi-would models if needed, but doesn't put out such a big punch when hitting infantry and obviously falls behind an Archon for sheer killing.
• Is the Gauntlet on the Haem a bit redundant? Could those points be better spent elsewhere?
• Scourges best in 5-man units for target saturation? Or one large unit, I'm guessing without a farseer smaller is better?
• On that note, should I be trying to split the wracks down into two units if possible?


ST

I'm not a fan of haywyre blasters, but i guess you can give them a try. At least you won't be scared by any kind of mech I think two small units of scourges are fine. gives you more mobility. But wracks needs numbers to accomplish anything. so i say 10 wracks are good.
About the gauntlet on the haemy, considering how fast he is going to die...you could try a dirty and funny trick with a dark gate or casket of flensing just for fun. Even orb of despair could be effective if you are lucky

I would put a crucible on the second Haemie just for a bit of psychic defense and TGLs on both raiders. Now I still think you are better with splinter on the Taloi to get FNP quicker as you have haywire wyches as well but meh, haywire blasters are not terrible.

Just a thought, with the points and list as is I could swap the flesh gauntlet Haem for a Succubus?

I was thinking Power Spear, Venom Blade and Haywires, acting as a bit of a Swiss army knife for the unit to help you against whatever they come up against, particularly if my opponent manages to bog them down with bodies/MEQs/Walkers. Though I would obviously avoid being bogged down against my will I wonder if this might be a decent investment? (Plus I have a very cool conversion in mind!!!)

Thoughts?

ST