Gunboat Null Deployment 2500pts

In the light of playing against a buddy who loves his deathwings, I thought I'd burn that love with some Null Deployment, a method I learned thanks to Unorthodoxy.


+ HQ +
   - Archon
       Combat Drugs, Huskblade, Shadow field, Soul-trap, Splinter Pistol

   - Haemonculus
           Close Combat Weapon, Scissorhand, Shattershard, Splinter Pistol

+ Elites +
   - Incubi x9
       - Raider
           Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Shock Prow, Torment Grenade Launcher

   - Kabalite Trueborn x6
           3x Blaster, Haywire Grenades

+ Troops +
   - Kabalite Warriors x10
           Blaster, Splinter Cannon
       - Raider
            Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Torment Grenade Launcher

   - Kabalite Warriors x10
           Blaster, Splinter Cannon
       - Raider
            Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Torment Grenade Launcher

    - Kabalite Warriors x10
           Blaster, Splinter Cannon
       - Raider
            Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Torment Grenade Launcher

    - Kabalite Warriors x10
           Blaster, Splinter Cannon
       - Raider
            Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Torment Grenade Launcher

    - Kabalite Warriors x10
           Blaster, Splinter Cannon
       - Raider
            Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Retrofire Jets, Torment Grenade Launcher

  - Wracks x10
       Liquifier Gun x1
       - Raider
           Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies, Retrofire Jets, Shock Prow, Torment Grenade Launcher

+ Fast Attack +
   - Scourges x10
        Splinter Cannon x4

+ Heavy Support +
   - Ravager
       Disintegrators, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Torment Grenade Launcher

   - Ravager
       Disintegrators, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Torment Grenade Launcher

   - Ravager
       Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Torment Grenade Launcher, Retrofire Jets

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  The basic idea is to concede the first turn with the 2 Dis Ravagers and 5 Trueborn to be deployed as bait. Then after he uses his Deathwings on his turn I'll return fire, if I'm lucky, hold off their assaults until my second turn in which I'll deepstrike everything I can , the Archon with the Incubi and the Haem with the Wracks will assault any gunlines or  fortifications up close each Terminator group will have a gunboat on it, any that aren't preoccupied will work as objective takers, Scourges will hit any large group of infantry that need it, and the DL Ravager will light up any armor. From then it's a standard game. The only issue I may have is surviving the first 2 turns if he chooses to deepstrike then, maintaining the 18' range of safety from charges will be a must as will any chance at jinking. If you suggest any changes/additions or different tactics feel free to let me know.

Please let us know how it went. I am currently trying to find a solution against Drop Pod Salamanders assault and Strike Force Ultra. This deployment might go a long way against the Drop Pods.

I'd seriously consider taking sliscus instead of an archon in this list. You really don't lose that much in CC potential, and you gain 70 points in free retrofire jets. By my calculations, sliscus costs only 5 point more than your current archon. As for the difference between sliscus and an archon in CC:

Both are likely to be hitting on 3+(Against WS4)
Archon wounding on 5+ with AP2.(Against T4)
Sliscus wounding on 5+ with AP2.(Against everything)
Sliscus wounding on 2+ with AP- (Against everything)
Archon gets 1 additional attack.

This being said, an archon may perform slightly better against low toughness opponents simply due to the extra attack. But the difference isn't 65 points worth of difference, which is what you save by going Sliscus instead. (+5 points for sliscus, -70 points in retrofire jets)

Of further note, I don't see a place for both your archon and haemonculus. There is only room for 1 in the incubi unit. With this being the case, I'd suggest putting your haemonculus there and just letting them do their thing. The incubi don't really need an archon/sliscus to chop things up in CC.

I'd drop a blaster, a warrior, and a splinter cannon from 1 of your warrior units, and put sliscus with that unit to give them the 3+ poison rifle shots. I'd put splinter racks on their transport. (-24 points, plus previous -65 points = -89 points)

I'd drop the 3 blasters on your trueborn bait squad and give them 2 dark lances, basically making them objective campers in your deployment zone. I'd also make them 4 men instead of 6. I don't think the blasters have sufficient range for a footslogger squad. (-104 points)

I'd then use the extra points to purchase a klaivex with demiklaive and onslaught for my incubi unit.(-54 points)

Assuming you had 1 point left available in your list, you could then drop a single splinter cannon from a warrior squad and afford to purchase a dual-splinter cannon venom for your trueborn bait squad, which doesn't necessarily have to transport them.

We will be most probably be losing Sliscus in the new dex so not sure if trying to build lists on him is good for near future. But that does not make your argument invalid. He would indeed be great in this list.

The other suggestions seem good too, but that depends on playstyle and meta. The only thing I would differ is the Klaives. Not big fan of him.

aurynn wrote:

The other suggestions seem good too, but that depends on playstyle and meta. The only thing I would differ is the Klaives. Not big fan of him.

I hope you're wrong about Sliscus, as losing him will be a devastating blow to DE, I think.

But anyhow, I normally would agree on the Kaivex. However, onslaught is good, and effects the entire unit, granting an additional attack on every to-wound roll of 6. This has a larger effect the larger the unit is, so I suggest taking it primarily because he has 9 Incubi. It will likely give him 2-3 extra attacks per combat round, in addition to the buffed statline, leadership, and demiklaive of the Klaivex, while granting him an alternate character to accept challenges in case he doesn't want his Haemy to do so.

Yea. I got that, but in my meta 9 incubi and Klaivex is such a huuuge overkill that will leave my incubi staring into gunbarrels every enemy shooting phase. This unit will erase anything MEQ or TEQ, save for SS termies in their own assault, leaving them in the open. However I understand his role with the Haemi. Given the FNP, I would consider dropping an incubus or 2 in fact. Less points, same results, same casualties and IMHO Haemi should stay in the raider and Tankshock to get units out of cover and clustered and Liqui-away from it. Paintoken goes with Incubi ofc. No Haemi, no Klaivex needed.

They're meant to have Splinter Racks, will have to fix that, personally don't like using named characters  especially with the recent rumors. The Trueborn came about having points left, but dropping the 2 and picking up the DL may be the route I go. Also the Archon does have insta-kill on unsaved wound do to the huskblade, the main idea with that group is the Archon to issue a challenge in the unit, tying up the stronger units and the Incubi cleaning up the other guys.

Aeterna wrote:

Also the Archon does have insta-kill on unsaved wound do to the huskblade, the main idea with that group is the Archon to issue a challenge in the unit, tying up the stronger units and the Incubi cleaning up the other guys.

I understand that, but I just don't think the archon's huskblade is worth 65 points. When you compare their statlines and put them into real-world situations they'll likely be in, sliscus actually performs just as well as the archon, even with the huskblade. Reason being, they're both AP2 on a 5+ against most things, but against high toughness stuff, sliscus wounds on a 2+ while the archon probably can't hurt it at all. With sliscus, you get the benefit of a venom blade on top of the AP2 benefit of the huskblade, sans the ID.

Put another way, Sliscus fills the same role as your archon just as well as your archon, but comes with a free, dual-cannon venom.

I can see what your saying and I may use it, and upon a relook at the list in Battlescribe, I did have the Splinter racks, guess they were loss in my edit. Here's the new list:
+ HQ +
- Duke Sliscus

- Haemonculus
Close Combat Weapon, Scissorhand, Shattershard, Splinter Pistol

+ Elites +
- Incubi x9
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Shock Prow, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Trueborn x4
2x Dark Lance
- Venom
Splinter Cannon x2, Flickerfield, Nightshield

+ Troops +
- Kabalite Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Warriors x10
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Kabalite Warriors x9
- Raider
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks, Torment Grenade Launcher

+ Fast Attack +
- Scourges x10
Splinter Cannon x4

+ Heavy Support +
- Ravager
Disintegrators, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Ravager
Disintegrators, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Torment Grenade Launcher

- Ravager
Dark Lances, Flickerfield, Torment Grenade Launcher

Worked out to be the same points value as the last list.

A bit different viewpoint. Although I love the idea of null deployment, I'm always afraid of deepstriking mishap, especially for our big&long raiders. Like a mishap roll of 1 for Duke's raider - I know this is going to extremes but it's horrible I'd rather use more venoms than raiders if I must use the null deployment tactics.

As for the Huskblade... with Eternal Warrior everywhere it really did lost its charm...

aurynn wrote:

As for the Huskblade... with Eternal Warrior everywhere it really did lost its charm...

I disagree. There are still plenty of characters that don't have it, and who can argue against it's value against multi-wound units like grotesques. 4 unsaved wounds = 4 grotesques down by 1 character in 1 combat round. That's 12 wounds worth of models. AND it ignores feel no pain, grotesques primary method of not taking wounds, outside of their toughness.

Isn't that marginal? How many times in 10 battles do you face this situation? Unfortunatelly my meta is mostly marines of all flavours. Almost no other races, save for Nids and Tau. And in that its uses are VERY limited. BTW dont you wound grotesques on 6? Which means 6 attacks on charge, 4 hits, 0,67 wounds = dead grotesques?

aurynn wrote:

Isn't that marginal? How many times in 10 battles do you face this situation? Unfortunatelly my meta is mostly marines of all flavours. Almost no other races, save for Nids and Tau. And in that its uses are VERY limited. BTW dont you wound grotesques on 6? Which means 6 attacks on charge, 4 hits, 0,67 wounds = dead grotesques?

It's not "VERY" limited against those armies. Against all multi-wound models without eternal warrior, it's useful. Against all models that have FnP, it's useful(Denies them FnP rolls), and against all those monstrous creatures, it's useful. Sure, you may only be wounding a monstrous creature on the roll of a 6.

But when you roll that 6, do you want to knock off 1 out of 4 wounds, or do you want it to just be dead? And with the many single-wound characters such as space marines seargents, it won't take long for a S3 Archon with a huskblade to become a S6 Archon with a huskblade due to soul trap. Once you get that ball rolling, you normally end up with a S10 Archon.

Also, in case you weren't aware, they FAQed the huskblade, making it AP2, and thus great against termies and TEQ.

Yea. I know about AP2. I have problems rolling a 6 in one of 30 rolls, so... :-) Suffice to say that my agoni archon failed to kill a single scout/meq on charge on more than one occasion... :-D

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

And with the many single-wound characters such as space marines seargents, it won't take long for a S3 Archon with a huskblade to become a S6 Archon with a huskblade due to soul trap.

Sorry for asking, but isn't Soul Trap activated by Independent Character and Monstrous Creature, not by just Character? Please correct me if I'm wrong

Exactly Lelith. No sergeants. Missed that.

lelith wrote:

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

And with the many single-wound characters such as space marines seargents, it won't take long for a S3 Archon with a huskblade to become a S6 Archon with a huskblade due to soul trap.

Sorry for asking, but isn't Soul Trap activated by Independent Character and Monstrous Creature, not by just Character? Please correct me if I'm wrong

No, you're correct. And I actually caught that on myself before anyone else did. But I decided to do the fart in a crowded street thing and move on, hoping no one else noticed where it came from.

Still, huskblade/soul trap combo are good. Just have to target independent characters and MCs, which may be slightly more rare.

But ultimately, I still prefer the Duke to a huskblade archon, just for all the buffs the duke gives to the rest of your army. And yes, in round 5, a soul trap/huskblade archon may be able to take out tanks with his fists, but earlier on, I actually think the Duke is better in CC. He just stays level across the whole game, whereas a ST/HB archon tends to scale up towards the end of a game(or be dead already).