Coming back to Dark Eldar Need help with an army list

I am old Dark Eldar player (2nd) That recently came back to the army. I was wondering if I can get some insights/help with building an army list. (Aming for 2200-2500)

The basic idea of my army is to be very fast and mobile.

Urien

3 Gorts with Liqufier guns +raider (with Urien)
5 blasterborn venom with splinter cannon
5 blasterborn venom with splinter cannon


5 Warriors Venom with Splinter cannon
5 Warriors Venom with Splinter cannon

5 Scourges Haywire Blasters
5 Scourges Haywire Blasters
Razorwing Jet fighter

Bomber
3 Talos Twin-linked Haywire blasters
1 Cronos

My questions are:

-With soo much anti tank is it a good idea to maybe change one squad of scourges with shardcarbines and splinter cannons instead of haywire blasters?
-Can I do my allied detachment  be a coven in which I use the Urien, Grots, Talos and Cronos for the coven?
-Do I need more anti Infantry?

tylous wrote:

I am old Dark Eldar player (2nd) That recently came back to the army. I was wondering if I can get some insights/help with building an army list. (Aming for 2200-2500)

Do you mean the revised codex in 3rd edition or are you old enough to have done the 'counts as' Dark Eldar of 2nd? I've never met one of those early trailblazers and would figuratively kill to get to see some army pics or something if you have any of the converted army!

tylous wrote:

The basic idea of my army is to be very fast and mobile.

Let me open up with saying - I don't think you accomplished this since you picked many slow options. I'm not saying that is inherently good or bad but I don't think you're particularly mobile.

Also, all of my following advice will be made in a general sense with competitive play in mind, so feel free to adjust if your local player group is more laid back.

tylous wrote:

Urien

3 Gorts with Liqufier guns +raider (with Urien)

You don't actually have that many units that will benefit from Father of Pain - so one of my first thoughts is 'what benefit is Urien actually bringing here?'.
I would note, that for his cost, you could buy a regular Haem and an additional Grotesque and upgrade to Aberration with it and probably end up with a superior combat force. Urien don't boost Grots any more or less than any other Haem nowadays - so if you want him make sure you know why you're choosing him. For the most part he doesn't appear to be helping your army.

I would also say that Liquifiers kinda aren't that impressive now - I'd probably stick to only taking 1-2 of them and just having the extra swings in assault, honestly. They're kind of dumb expensive for what they're adding here.

tylous wrote:

5 blasterborn venom with splinter cannon
5 blasterborn venom with splinter cannon

Just to make sure - you are saying that you're taking 5 Trueborn with 4 Blasters, right?

These will serve you fine.

tylous wrote:

5 Warriors Venom with Splinter cannon
5 Warriors Venom with Splinter cannon

I like these builds, I would note that taking multiple Troops is still good and useful in 7th edition (albeit not as important as it once was).
I, personally, would never use so few, and would tend to suggest that you take more, but the individual builds are fine here.

tylous wrote:

5 Scourges Haywire Blasters
5 Scourges Haywire Blasters
Razorwing Jet fighter

I'm guessing you're taking dissies on the razorwing? If so I approve.
The Scourges will serve you well, make sure to keep them focused on optimal targets (like glancing down Blessed Hulls or dropping Knights and the like) The enemy will target them early if they have those sorts of units so make sure they earn their keep prior to squishy death.

tylous wrote:

Bomber
3 Talos Twin-linked Haywire blasters
1 Cronos

I think the Voidraven is one of the worst units in the current codex. I would happily take more Troops or a Ravager and have points left over for other stuff. The issue with it is - if you're buying it naked (which you appear to be doing so) you are taking it at its best option. At that point it is still very expensive, and very fragile. Compare what you get there with getting either a Ravager or a Razorwing w. Lances. The value is not particularly there.

I am okay with all the pain engines though note they are going to be slow compared to the rest of the army - Grots and jets will be hitting turn 2, everything else turn 1, the pain engines will get into it turn 2-3 in the best case scenario. This can be worked with, just understand it for what it is.

tylous wrote:

-With soo much anti tank is it a good idea to maybe change one squad of scourges with shardcarbines and splinter cannons instead of haywire blasters?
-Can I do my allied detachment  be a coven in which I use the Urien, Grots, Talos and Cronos for the coven?
-Do I need more anti Infantry?

1. I actually don't think you have that much anti-tank for the point total you're building for. I see no reason to take Scourges with splintercannons. If you wanted more anti-infantry I'd suggest dropping the Void Raven for another Troop option in a Venom, with a bit of point pruning you could even buy 2, and that would be better anti-infantry and anti-mech than switching up the one Scourge squad.

2. Well...yes and no. This is actually a complicated question and really goes into understanding how the detachments work in the game. Basically, you could get a coven and Kabal detachment - but you would need to purchase more HQs to make it happen, and also you can't use an ally detachment with Coven Supplement rules as, to get those rules, you need to use one of the detachments described in that supplement which Allied is not. Does that make sense?

3. In my opinion 'no'  but I suppose the question really is 'how much infantry do you normally see?'
Your Grots, Venoms, Razorwing, Talos, and Chronus are all capable of dealing with infantry (and for many - that is their only real goal) The answer to your question is 'will you see infantry numbers more often than not that these units will be unable to deal with?' If the answer is 'yes' then you need more, if the answer is 'no' then you don't, and if the answer is 'I'm not sure' then I would say you need to play some games and find out for yourself.

I appropriate the info I am a competitive person so I do want a list that can stand up in competitive enviroment.

The reason for Urien and Grots to be used as part of a coven. I might of miss understood the mechanics but I was thinking of using the Dark Eldar coven supplement and have:


Urien
Grots
Talos
Cronos

Using the supplements rules just because the stock PfP table really doesn't do much for them.

As for the Voidraven.... I know I get flack for it all the time I JUST LOVE HOW IT LOOKS.

I do also have two Ravagers collecting dust. Would they maybe be more useful to field then say something else (to help with my infantry problem) if I put disintegrator cannons on them?

tylous wrote:

The reason for Urien and Grots to be used as part of a coven. I might of miss understood the mechanics but I was thinking of using the Dark Eldar coven supplement and have:


Urien
Grots
Talos
Cronos

Using the supplements rules just because the stock PfP table really doesn't do much for them.

You should re-read the supplement. In order to get those rules you need to field a legal detachment/formation from the supplement. There is no other way to get access to those rules barring house rules.

tylous wrote:

As for the Voidraven.... I know I get flack for it all the time I JUST LOVE HOW IT LOOKS.

That is fair.

tylous wrote:

I do also have two Ravagers collecting dust. Would they maybe be more useful to field then say something else (to help with my infantry problem) if I put disintegrator cannons on them?

If you have an infantry problem than Ravagers w. Dissies can help. So can Venoms with anything inside. So can Razorwings. I would call the Ravager the least functional of the three options I listed here.

In order to get full use of the Coven formation that it appears you are going for, I would make the following changes:

Drop 2 Talos (can have up to 3 in a unit, but drop enough to make room) and add in another Haemoncululs, and add another unit of Grots

Grotesquerie:
Haemy/Urien
2 Units of Grots

Dark Artisan
Haemy
1 unit of Talos
1 unit of Cronos

Dark Artisan actually asks for 1 Talos and 1 Cronos, not 1 unit of each.
I am of the belief that they mean models, not units there, as it coincides with how the rest of the supplement was written.

I'm not understanding why everyone is in love with scourges and haywire blasters.  HWB are heavy weapons!!!  Moving and shooting is bad with a unit that.... Deep strikes and can move 12" at a time...... This seems totally counter-intuitive to me.  Give them blasters and call it a day.  By the time you could actually hit what you're shooting at they'd be dead.  Please let me know if I'm missing something here.  I almost put them in my list as well but re-read the codex and saw they're under the heavy weapons category.

Disregard this post please.

I commented on another post about the same topic and was informed they are listed under the heavy weapons but the profile says assault.