New Spess-muhreens codex rumoured for June 13

The post below popped up on Natfka this morning. It might seem a little difficult to believe, given how the current codex is not that old yet, but if true it is not really surprising to me. The pace at which GW has been updating and pumping out new codexes, with formations and detachments being the "new black" for everyone, meant that this was due sooner rather than later.

The power and streamlining of the recent Necron and Eldar codexes meant that SM would also be done soon so that they could maintain their competitive edge at the top of the heap.

And the numerous rumours of at least one new campaign and starter boxes/limited release sets in the second half of this year also were an indicator that Muhreens would get a matching tweak, at the minimum.

Natfka wrote:

via 'RR' on Faeit 212
'June 13th sees new Adeptus Astartes Codex release with two vehicle boxes. New land raider command variant included and new rhino command variant. Ornate design on additional armour plates etc. More marine kits to follow.

The codex sees predators/whirlwinds/indicators as 1-3 options. No surprise.
The codex sees land raider squadrons and huge bonus to ignoring damage when part of them.
More info to come...'

Wouldn't surprise me.
And I'm 100% sure that the codex will come out alongside yet another updated Tactical Squad box.

Probably updated assault marines... we had a quick tactical with blood angels

The thing is, GW has released new Tactical Marines with every new Space Marine codex so far. But unless they get another new weapon that wasn't included in the previous edition, there is hardly any unit less in need of an update right now.

I don't think need of an update has ever influenced GW's decision to update anything, Space Marines especially.

Unless by "update" we mean "call them Adeptus Astartes." They may be pretty keen on that.

ERMAGHERD!!!
SPERCE MERERNS!!

It would be a good business decision. There's at least 3:1 ratio of marine players to everyone else.

Calyptra wrote:

I don't think need of an update has ever influenced GW's decision to update anything, Space Marines especially.

Unless by "update" we mean "call them Adeptus Astartes." They may be pretty keen on that.

"Codex Adeptus Astrates: Space Marines", to go by the current naming scheme.

Come on Black Templars....

I mean oh booo to new codex for Space Marines...

I'm surprised it took them this long to update the flagship army of 40K. I just hope there is no formation involving a battery of Thunderfire cannons

Evil Space Elves wrote:

I'm surprised it took them this long to update the flagship army of 40K. I just hope there is no formation involving a battery of  Thunderfire cannons

If they release a new model for it (which I would actually welcome), you bet there'll be a formation too.

At over £30 for a thunderfire, I'd be amazed if their sales figures are as decent as the gun itself - thanks goodness I bought an old metal one when they first came out is all I can say.

That being said, and as a marine player too (I'll be honest, i probably split my affections 50:50 marines and dark eldar - marines got me into the game after all) the codex does feel decidedly old due to the pace at which things have changed in the last 18 months.

Chapter tactics were a great idea but i think could very well be replaced by formation bonuses.

Stalkers and Hunters could do with a tweak - the lack of interceptor leaves them very open to being neutered before flyers arrive.

Terminators desperately need an overhaul - comparison with grey knight terminators that are 35pts cheaper, a troops choice and also psychic is not good. And in terms of ranged output the storm bolter isn't great for your premier elite force.

Assault marines need something to make them worthwhile, sadly this needs to be done by fixing the chainsword rather than the unit - if they could reduce armour saves by a couple of points I'd be happy.

I like the rumoured changes to the tanks though, being able to take them in squadrons will really help in a very crowded HS slot. I may even buy some predators for uber-dakka.

I'm gonna post something on my blog regarding these rumours later today and doing a bit of wish listing so if you're interested in my uncut thoughts on the matter, check it out later!

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

Terminators desperately need an overhaul - comparison with grey knight terminators that are 35pts cheaper, a troops choice and also psychic is not good. And in terms of ranged output the storm bolter isn't great for your premier elite force.

Terminators will never be the force that they are supposed to be in a D6 system. Unless you introduce 1+ armour saves then they can always be torrented down, whereas in the fluff they can walk through almost any amount of small arms fire without harm. Agree on Storm Bolters, they really don't pump out the sort of firepower that Terminators need.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Terminators will never be the force that they are supposed to be in a D6 system. Unless you introduce 1+ armour saves then they can always be torrented down, whereas in the fluff they can walk through almost any amount of small arms fire without harm. Agree on Storm Bolters, they really don't pump out the sort of firepower that Terminators need.

Agreed, I can see why they used to be a 2D6 save though that would be horrendous in the current game with the quantity of saves they'd be required to take.

I do wonder if they might jump to 2W though - sergeants recently seem to be getting an extra wound (Skitarii, Exarchs) so a 2W marine sergenat isn't out of the question I don't think. That would possibly lead to a logical progression for sternguard and terminators to become 2W too, since they're all basically veterans anyway (I realise technically a marine sergeant isn't a veteran but there's not much difference).

That would go nicely towards making terminators closer to their fluff. It would still keep the efficacy of S8 weapons too since they'd be ID'd by them.

In case you hadn't figured it out, I have three main frustrations with the marine dex.
1. Terminators getting torrented (also known as my inability to pass 2+ saves),
2. assault marines hitting like a powder puff, and
3. BS3 scout snipers.

Snipers are easily fixed, just by making them BS4 (even if it's via a wargear bonus rather than a statline bonus so it only affects the sniper variant) and assault marines just need options to deal with armour (a couple of power weapons or axes in the squad as options instead of the pistol/special upgrades would probably do it, and fit with the existing upgrade systems for them).

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

Chapter tactics were a great idea but i think could very well be replaced by formation bonuses.

I don't know. The thing with formations is that they require the players to build their armies around certain units in order to get a good ability. Half of the Codex Marines don't so much favour certain units though, but rather use their entire army in a certain special way.
A White Scars formation based on Bikes, a Raven Guard formation based on Assault Marines and Scouts; I could see those. But what units would an Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Salamanders, Iron Hands or Ultramarines formation have to include, in a way that makes sense for their fluff?
I think Chapter Tactics should stay as they are, because they represent how the entire chapter fights, not just a combination of specific units.

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

Terminators desperately need an overhaul - comparison with grey knight terminators that are 35pts cheaper, a troops choice and also psychic is not good. And in terms of ranged output the storm bolter isn't great for your premier elite force.

Codex Terminators: 40 points/model. Definitely too much for what they can do.
Chaos Terminators: 31 points/model. Now that's more like a reasonable price.

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

Assault marines need something to make them worthwhile, sadly this needs to be done by fixing the chainsword rather than the unit - if they could reduce armour saves by a couple of points I'd be happy.

The Chain Axe used to do that back in 3rd: Treating armor saves better than 4+ as only 4+. It was changed in 4th because, according to an interview with the author, it "didn't feel right" to have a weapon that lowers armor saves in 40k.