2k coven / kabal

Looking to see what people think of this list. Note: an easy change would be swapping the patrol for a HS detachment, but I don't have a 3rd ravager yet.



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Prophets of Flesh

+ HQ +

Haemonculus: Electrocorrosive whip, Splinter Pistol, The Vexator Mask

Urien Rakarth

+ Troops +

Wracks
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Ossefactor
. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Ossefactor
. 7x Wracks

Wracks
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Ossefactor
. 3x Wracks

Wracks
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Ossefactor
. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Ossefactor
. 7x Wracks

+ Elites +

Grotesques
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver

Grotesques
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver

+ Heavy Support +

Talos
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider: Disintegrator cannon

Raider: Disintegrator cannon

Raider: Disintegrator cannon

Raider: Disintegrator cannon

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Patrol Detachment (Aeldari - Drukhari)] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Black Heart

+ HQ +

Archon Huskblade, Splinter pistol, Writ of the Living Muse

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors
. 15x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance[/b]

Looks like a pretty good coven heavy list to me. Do you plan on webway portaling the warrior unit in? 20 warriors showing up turn 3 will have the nice fearless trait from pfp, but on the other hand your list has limited anti-tank firepower so keeping those blasters off the board until turn 3 might be a problem. One potential idea is take an outrider black heart detachment and find a little room for 3 scourge units with haywire/blasters. They can deep strike whenever with a much smaller footprint and will bring more anti-vehicle firepower, mayb 2 units with blasters/haywires and one just stock splinter carbines to save pts. If you drop the warriors,one grotesque and the venom that may be enough pts, not entirely sure though since I can't add up the pts at the moment.

Hm. I do plan on WWPing the 20 warrior blob. I am also concerned about the amount of AT, but I'm kind of thinking about it with respect to what kind of lists you might see with many tanks. It seems like the most common variant would be a IG list, in which case all of my army will be in his face soon enough that he'll be on back foot early (hopefully). While light on traditional AT, this army will hopefully much any screens and exert both board control and then later game grinding CC pressure on any tanks.

I'm hesitant to over commit TOO much to haywire, as that would overbalance the list away from being able to handle other threats, like body spam lists (DG/chaos), elite / monster lists like custodes, etc.

That said, I do think the venom and one grotesque are drop-able, which would give enough points for one unit like that.

I think you're probably in an okish place for anti-tank, you have a solid amount of haywire but I wouldn't say you're over relying on haywire since you have dark lance ravagers. Still an extra blaster unit couldn't hurt so yeah just one scourge unit with blasters would be helpful.

Also one other thought, where are the haemonculi going? I was just thinking that one should definetly be footslogging with the talos, bumping up their toughness by one point makes a pretty big difference for them.

Yes, one footslogging (being able to swap Urien around to get the best use of +STR is very beneficial - with grots against lots of T3, with Talos against lots of T4), one in the raider.

There's also the possibility of putting both in a raider and WWP'ing the taloi if they cede board control and have tanks in backfield.

Question: For the helm of spite, in ITC can you buy relics on the fly at the beginning of a game? Against psyker heavy lists it seems like an auto include on a haemi.

I don't think you can wwp in taloi, since the stratagem is just for infantry/beats if I remember correctly and not monsters. Either way good to have a haemonculus with the talos.

I don't play ITC rules at all so no idea. Definitely an auto-include though against psyker heavy armies.

Ah! Didn't realize that. Thanks.

grotesques are infantry
and why dont you put the raiders in the kabal detachment so they get the 6+++ ?

AzraeI wrote:

grotesques are infantry
and why dont you put the raiders in the kabal detachment so they get the 6+++ ?

This is certainly a good option. Right now, I want to test to see how often the +1 T comes into play for the raiders if one of the Haemonculi is on foot, either because he's near the one that is near the talos, or because I am going turn 2 and decided to put the other one on the board as well for the T boost.

The difference between t5 and 6 for transports depends a lot on the army you're facing. Any army with s4 as their basic gun like the majority of armies, it won't matter at all. However, that's not always the case. I found in my first game against tau, man I wish all our transports were t5. I probably lost more vehicles to massed pulse rifle fire than any heavy anti-tank weapon. Same case against guard somewhat as well, the lasgun might be a meh gun but with frfsrf order that's a ton of lasguns wounding on 5s, be much better if they wounded on 6s. I'm sure there are other scenarios where t6 is a lot more useful over t5, but I can't think of any I've faced.

So I'd say if you often face tau/guard, yeah the toughness boost is great. If not, don't really need the vehicles to be coven.

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

The difference between t5 and 6 for transports depends a lot on the army you're facing. Any army with s4 as their basic gun like the majority of armies, it won't matter at all. However, that's not always the case. I found in my first game against tau, man I wish all our transports were t5. I probably lost more vehicles to massed pulse rifle fire than any heavy anti-tank weapon. Same case against guard somewhat as well, the lasgun might be a meh gun but with frfsrf order that's a ton of lasguns wounding on 5s, be much better if they wounded on 6s. I'm sure there are other scenarios where t6 is a lot more useful over t5, but I can't think of any I've faced.

So I'd say if you often face tau/guard, yeah the toughness boost is great. If not, don't really need the vehicles to be coven.

I do in my meta, but I totally agree that it is dependent on what you face. I'm looking to keep the list "general" in which case Black Heart transports may make more sense.

Woozl wrote:

AzraeI wrote:

grotesques are infantry
and why dont you put the raiders in the kabal detachment so they get the 6+++ ?

This is certainly a good option. Right now, I want to test to see how often the +1 T comes into play for the raiders if one of the Haemonculi is on foot, either because he's near the one that is near the talos, or because I am going turn 2 and decided to put the other one on the board as well for the T boost.

i forgot about that

move along