20 Man Warrior Squad

So I've been through the book and decided I want to do a list with Lady Malys as my HQ and having the entire Kabal army. At first I was going to do the basic 10 man warrior squad in a Raider. But then I started considering going outside the box and running a big 20 man squad!

I mean to run a 10 man squad with a blaster, SC, a Sybarite with PGL and Venom Blade all in a Raider with Night Shields = 220

A 20 man Squad with 2 DL, a Sybarite with PGL and Venom Blade = 265 pts

So for 45 more pts I get 1 DL and 10 more men in the Squad

I'm not particularly concerned with the lack of mobility because with 2 DL their main purpose is to sit on an objective and Shoot tanks down plus if any infantry go for the assault that's 34 splinter shots plus with the PGL they get no bonus for charging and because of obvious placement the enemy will be charging through cover.

My intention is to run 2 of these units (40 scoring warriors on the field) with 1 Haemi attached to each of them giving them that wonderful FNP. I feel that this option gives me more bodies, more DL shots and much higher durability ( no dying from vehicle explosion, which it will) I feel like I'm on to something here all in all this tactic will cost me 530 pts, please let me know any constructive criticism or insight you can provide

the syb is a waste of points, drop him, and that will save you most of your points. If you dont have all 6 troop slots filled, cut them into 10 man squads with DL, to give you a bit more flexibility (you can run them as one squad as well, putting both into the same piece of cover and so forth, as if you're getting assaulted with them, it's not really going to matter in the end regardless.). I've run it, and it's ok, but I've found that I'm not terribly fond of warriors unless they are of the trueborn ilk...

It works, I've done it before in friendly games. However...

You won't see this build in competitive play because you'll lose your biggest weapon with DE which is:

1) Mobility. And good opponents will know how to decimate a DE army which lies dead in the water. It's nice to sit on your own objectives in your own deployment zone for 5 turns long, but what are you going to do to get your opponents objectives? You have to commit a lot of points to these sitting ducks, so you won't have enough power to overtake the other objectives. You'll end up with your own objectives contested and no new objectives either won nor contested.

Dark Eldar dictate the game or lose. This is how the glass hammer works. If you give up your moblity you give up every chance of dictating the game and you won't be able to orchestrate who will shoot where what and how and who will assault what in CC. This is a bad thing for DE. Your opponent now has the initiative and throws his best CC units at your worst CC units. Warriors are actually your worst CC units and you open the gates for your opponents best CC units to assault them.

2) Plus Warriors (and DE in general) are not known for being sturdy (T3, 5+ armoursave) and in tournaments you don't know if objectives are in cover (so you can't rely on 4+ coversaves). The heamy might make them a bit more sturdy, but there's enough in the 40k universe to negate FnP and it'll only get you so far anyway. They are not objectivesitters.

If you want more DL's think of Ravagers. Ravagers carry 3 DL's for 105 pts.

Ideally, you want to hit hard and fast with your DE. It's a very rare match where I hold any objective earlier than turn 4, because I'm dedicating all of my units on the attempt to just table my opponent. If by turn 4 it doesnt look like I'll be able to do that by the end of my next turn (which is oft the case) I'll do a headlong rush for the open objectives on turn 5. If' I've done my job right, I'll have just the slight advantage by this point in terms of being able get to objectives, as my opponents will have no transports left, and hopefully be stranded far enough away from their own objective and too far away from mine to pose a threat. If it goes into turn 6 I'll drop my unit off and recommit my vehicles to the fight (only in the case of troops). While the 20 man warrior squad (or two ten man warrior squads, if you take that advice) isn't bad, it's just not something that works well for our army. My suggestion, if you want to run warriors, is to take 9+haemun+blaster in a raider. It's not optimal, but it depends on what your going for. I normally reserve my troop slots for wyches in raiders with haem, and wracks in venoms (if im playing to win, and not just friendly, 2 and 4 of those units, respectively). Save your kabalites for trueborn, or toss 5 in a venom with a blaster, if you insist on going that route.

I don't want to reiterate what many have already said, or give a grand expositiion of the entire Dark Eldar concept, and I'm not going to tell you the sniper squad is bad in principle. However...

MalysSlave wrote:

I mean to run a 10 man squad with a blaster, SC, a Sybarite with PGL and Venom Blade all in a Raider with Night Shields = 220

A 20 man Squad with 2 DL, a Sybarite with PGL and Venom Blade = 265 pts

So for 45 more pts I get 1 DL and 10 more men in the Squad

You didn't count the Raider's Dark Lance!

A 10-man Raider squad with a Dark Lance starting the game in a Raider pays 88 points per lance.

Meanwhile, a 20-man squad with 2 Lances spends 115 points per lance.

Yes, one of your Lances is on a vehicle in the former example, but if the enemy is shooting at your sniper Raider, he's not shooting at better targets like your assault transports or your Ravagers: this isn't a pithy truism- actively baiting your enemy into targeting your weaker units is both strategically advantageous and quite fun. The Raider also allows your sniper unit to deploy inside of it Turn 1 and spend that turn moving 12" and disembarking in an ideal location. This is also vital with things like Spearhead Deployment, where the distances don't favor immobile Dark Lances, or if the enemy is Deep Striking into your deployment zone: if your enemy is too far or too close, that is!

I recommend a mechanized sniper squad because it gives cheaper lances and vastly expanded options. The vehicle's Dark Lance is more easily disabled, but even that can be part of the plan. If you don't like the vehicle or don't have the models, I'll echo the "two-10 man squad" idea to fill up your Troops slots and be able to hold more objectives.

I use 20 dudes in a squad, but instead they have 2 splinter cannons and Ducky Slicco's poison upgrade. This way, they're brutal as hell, and they cost a mere 200 points (210 if I'm afeared of them running away, which happens waaaaaay more than it should (i.e. sybarite)). The cannons also provide them with marginally more mobility than a lance, and because I have about eight million wyches with haywire grenades, I have no issue with anti-tank. Really, if you want warriors with 2 lances, go trueborn.

i ran a build similar to this when the new book first came out because i was ignorant and stubbornly against using wracks. i never did awful with it, but it definetly lowers the potential of your army. if you want to hold an objective, go with wracks. its really that simple. the 2 DL the warriors have will miss and not pen all the time and you will end up wanting to electrocorrosive whip yourself in the nuts when you realize that you bought a stagnant 20 man blob that will get deeply penetrated and overran by any of the opposing units which even slightly hint at being CC specialized. Not the mention flame templates. im not saying wracks will survive that horribly better, but they are more cost effective and more resilient overall.

However, the 20man blob can be fun and with the Duke even a bit gimmicky which can make it ok in certain situations. If your bent on using sniper DL's maybe just go with some DL trueborn. They arent the most competitive thing, but you get your 2 DL for cheaper than your oversized warrior squad. All in all try what works for you there was a major tournament where a DE player placed extremely high and he ran Vect WITH the dias, so that just goes to show you that in the right hands any unit can work

20 coward with splinter cannons and a poison upgrade. So lets count. Over 24" you basically have 8 shots moveing, 12 shots babysitting.
8: 5.33 hit 3.55 wound, and lets count the average armor you will be up against: 4+. So from 8 shots you got 1.77 man dead. How much did you spend on it? 200+sliscus? WTH U MAD?!
12: 8 hits, 5.33 wounds 2.66 dead. 22% kill ratio. A Hexrifle has 33% with ONE SHOT! And it only costs 65pt, not 350. But that 65 is a waste as well, so why wouldnt this be? No! Forget it. Warriors are ment to be babysitting an objective with a blaster, or roaming in a venom with a blaster. That is 5 man, no more, no less.