Skill Lists

So, I might be jumping the gun a bit here, but I got it into m head to start brainstorming some skill lists. Basically I'm following the standard set by Necromunda and Mordheim, with some standard lists that different gangs/warbands have access to, with some gangs/warbands getting access to a special list. I like the idea of rolling on these table randomly, like in Nec, rather than choosing which one you want, like in Mord. Also there are some references in there to injury rolls and earning from territory.

We still haven't decided on rules, so obviously this is very preliminary, but have a look and let me know what you think. I've written them with the idea of assault and shooting working like in 6th, only with save modifiers rather than AP (I do have a suggestion for how WS works, but that's for another thread). Some of them are more written up than others!

Skills: Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed, Ferocity, Stealth, Esoteria.

Combat
Disarm – a model with this skill may sacrifice all of their attacks in order to make a single roll to hit. If the hit is successful, one of the target’s weapons (chosen by the attacker) is destroyed permanently. Delete it from the warband’s roster.
Parry (parry is a 5+ invulnerable in CC only – if model already has parry then it may re-roll)
parry would also be a special rule of certain weapons, like swords
Preferred Enemy USR
Combat Master – add 1 to WS for each enemy model after the 1st in CC
Feint – model may forfeit its parry for an extra attack.
Precision Strike – CC attacks gain a -1 save modifier.


Shooting
Deadeye – reduce target’s cover save by -1
Crack Shot – increase weapon ranges by +6”
Gunslinger – may use 2 pistols as a single shooting action. (maybe vs. 2 targets?)
I don't think that this should be automatically available
Doubletap – add +1 to injury rolls from shooting
Hipshooting – resolve snap fire at normal BS
Quick Shot – add 1 to the number of shots allowed by any ranged weapon (eg: Salvo 4/6 becomes 5/7)


Strength
Meteor Charge – gain the ‘Hammer of Wrath’ USR
Die Hard – gain the ‘Feel No Pain’ USR. If the model already has it, increase by 1.
Relentless USR
Fear USR
Bully – model adds +1 to its injury rolls in CC.


Speed
Hit and Run USR
Jink USR
Move Through Cover USR
some kind of bonus to climbing checks, if we use them
some sort of 'leap' skill, Mord and Nec both go for a D6


Stealth
Stealth USR
Infiltration USR
Scout USR
Backstab – overwatch may not be fired against this model


Ferocity
Furious Charge USR
Rage USR
Rampage USR
Re-roll pinning tests
Counter Attack USR


Esoteria
Reputation (fighters only) – this model may re-roll the income when working a territory.
Medic – re-roll one serious injury roll for each model with this skill.
Armourer – this model adds 1 to its ammo roll.
Weapons Expert – this model may choose access to any one weapon list (including those from specialty lists, such as wych weapons and Haemonculi Arcana).


The following skill lists are for Wych Cults, Haemonculi Covens, and Mandrake Clans.


Wychcraft
Bladed Hand – the Wych has trained in the arts of unarmed fighting (although they are famous for blurring the line of what counts as unarmed). This model may fight unarmed without penalty, and gains +1 attack when doing so. Injury rolls go out of action on a 5 or 6 (crit hits?). This bonus applies to gauntlet type weapons as well.
Knife-fighter –This wych has focused on perfecting their knifecraft, becoming a flashing whirlwind in close quarters – deflecting blows with impossible grace before slipping a blade into an armpit or groin or some other gap between armour plates. This model may parry with knives and gains a -1 save mod with them.
Debilitate – this wych enjoys the toying with her prey before delivering the coup de grace, severing tendons, puncturing nerve clusters and snapping joints. The wych may sacrifice all her attacks to make a single debilitate attack. It the attack hits, the enemy receives an automatic flesh wound.


Fleshcraft
Poison Resistant – weapons with the ‘poison’ special rule count as one worse versus this model (eg: poison 4+ becomes poison 5+)
Regenerate – when this model rolls on the serious injury chart it may roll three die and assign tens and units as it sees fit.
Acidic Ichor - when wounded in CC, the attacking model suffers a hit of strength equal to the wounded model's toughness.
Gnarlskin - +1 to armour save.
Bonespurs - the model inflicts a strength 1 hit on every model in base-to-base contact at initiative 1.


Balefire
Chilled to the bone - +1 S to all Balefire attacks
Clinging Mist - Balefire attacks gain ‘Soul Blaze’ USR
Icy Blast - Balefire attacks gain the 'Ignore Cover' USR
+1 shot to Balefire attacks
Creeping Cold - +6” range to Balefire attacks
Hoarfrost - Balefire attacks gain the 'Blind' USR


So, gents, what do you think? Feel free to tear it apart and suggest anything at all, I'm just looking to get the brainstorming started.

i myself like the look of these skills tbh, but i think there should be a skill available to represent the double crossing back stabbing self preserving nature of the dark eldar, maybe 'sabotage' in the esoteria chart. i know all dark eldar are like this, but some may play up on it more. maybe force re-rolls when an opponent works their territory if your leader sacrifices his rare find rolls or other such post game rolls the leader makes.
other than that, i think the charts look pretty good so far.

I like this very much - also, glad you included some of the stuff of what I had wrote on Mandrake Clans so far. I think though that when concerning them, I believe Shadowkin (Phantomkin?) should have access to the Combat charts, at least if Night Fiends do (that is, of course, depending on who should be the leaders. My personal opinion is that the leaders should be the Shadow/Phantom-kin).

i like that not so hot on mandrakes being the only one with stealth though

they all seem to make sense as well and not broken

Saintspirit wrote:

I like this very much - also, glad you included some of the stuff of what I had wrote on Mandrake Clans so far. I think though that when concerning them, I believe Shadowkin (Phantomkin?) should have access to the Combat charts, at least if Night Fiends do (that is, of course, depending on who should be the leaders. My personal opinion is that the leaders should be the Shadow/Phantom-kin).

Yeah, I just kept Nightfiend as the leader and put Shadowkin as the sort of 'elite' choice. I remembered it as Shadowkin, but looking back on your thread I see it was actually Phantomkin, sorry! What do you think of using balefire as a skill list? Can you think of any changes? I really want your input on that one, since it's your baby.


As for Mandrakes being the only ones with stealth... I originally had Trueborn and Dracons accessing it, but I swapped it out for ferocity. There's still other gangs as well! Feel free to make changes, though.

Good idea with the 'sabotage' skill, Leinmann. I'll throw that in there.

inorexia wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:

I like this very much - also, glad you included some of the stuff of what I had wrote on Mandrake Clans so far. I think though that when concerning them, I believe Shadowkin (Phantomkin?) should have access to the Combat charts, at least if Night Fiends do (that is, of course, depending on who should be the leaders. My personal opinion is that the leaders should be the Shadow/Phantom-kin).

Yeah, I just kept Nightfiend as the leader and put Shadowkin as the sort of 'elite' choice. I remembered it as Shadowkin, but looking back on your thread I see it was actually Phantomkin, sorry! What do you think of using balefire as a skill list? Can you think of any changes? I really want your input on that one, since it's your baby..

Wohoo, I've got a baby!

...Uh... Nevermind that.

First, I can say I have nothing against the idea of balefire as a source of skills; perhaps it should have a different name just for being more aesthetical pleasant (have no idea right now, though). The name for +1 shot could be something including blizzard or hail, I think. Also, I think the Hoarfrost and Clinging Mist skills should switch names (a mist would blind pretty good, don't you think?) Otherwise, what the skills are doing sounds pretty nice.

edit: Yay, 750th post!

I think these charts are really great ideas. The only things I would make sure of is that they are not rolled on too often. Maybe making sure there is some semblance of a leveling up for each model or maybe by having certain achievements allowing for a roll on a table randomly picked out of that models possible choices.

As well, you haven't mentioned either Scourges, Harlequins, Hellions, or Reavers. I am a big fan of scourges and harlequins so I took the liberty of coming up with some ideas for them. Including the addition of 3 additional Scourge types. One being a basic winged DE fresh off a Haemonculus' table; the Fledgeling. The second, being a more close combat oriented one that focuses on using his/her talons and claws to attack their foes; the Talonfiend. And the final being a leader type figure that would have stats that were more akin to either a Haemonculus, or the Dracon/Drachite of the old Dex.

Both the Harlequins and Scourges would be able to roll on their own specialty tables, as listed below.

Tell me what you all think....

Winged Way
Darting Dives –Jink USR
Winged Swat – Counts as having an additional CCW for purposes of number of attacks, from its massive wings beating at its enemy
Winged Shield – Model may re-roll any armor save rolls of a 1 in close combat, as its massive wings fold in front of it for protection
Soaring Sight – If the model has moved more than 6” any LOS blocking terrain is treated as area terrain instead; as if the model had a view from soaring above.
Dive Bomb- If the assault move taken by this model was over 6”, enemies must re-roll first successful Overwatch shot made on this model.

Life’s A Stage
Drama- Re-rolls any failed cover save rolls of a 1
Comedy- Gains -1 modifier to their cover save granted from the Flip Belts
Understudy- The model can benefit from Look Out Sir USR, if the model already benefits from this rule, it add’s +1 to its LoS roll (may only be added once).
Standing Ovation- Model gains Power From Pain special rule (Codex: DE pg.25)
Encore- After using a Hit and Run move, this model gains Furious Charge USR if it recharges the model(s) it broke away from combat with.
Celebrity Status- This model gains Eternal Warrior USR

	Combat	Shooting	Strength	Ferocity	Speed	Stealth	Esoteria	Winged Way
Shriek King	X	X	X				X	X
Solarite	X	X					X	X
Scourge	X	X						X
Talonfiend	X			X				X
Fledgeling	X							X

	Combat	Shooting	Strength	Ferocity	Speed	Stealth	Esoteria	Life's A Stage
Troupe Master	X		X			X	X	X
Shadowseer	X					X	X	X
Death Jester	X	X						X
Kiss Trouper	X			X				X
H. Trouper	X							X

Good idea with Scourges, Harlequins, Hellions and Reavers being other gang kinds; however I dunno if not Reavers are more just Wyches with jetbikes. Perhaps, instead, Incubi could be a kind of elite gang with less members, but far more stronger?

Also, I definitely think that (at least some) Harlequins should have access to Speed skills.

the only thing is they already have the Hit and Run rule and ignore difficult terrain anyway standard in their character profile. So they gain the least out of the Speed skill chart since two right off the bat are already held by them. That was my reasoning for not having them use that.

Personally, I think that Harlequins (like Incubi, Sslyth, and some others) should be a "Hired Gun" type, not separate gangs.

Yeah, I've been trying to think of some ideas for the other... what are we calling them? Warbands? Gangs? We should start another thread for that, I think, to get all of our heads together.

I had an idea sparked by helvexis' comment about stealth, though. In Mordheim there were 3 different Mercenary warbands with different skill options - how about doing the skill table I already posted as being for gangs from High Commorragh, and have the option for taking a gang from Low Commorragh where in every case 'Esoteria' is replaced with 'Stealth'?

Also, can we brainstorm for Leinmann's 'Sabotage' idea? On thinking about it, futzing with the enemy's income rolls raises some questions - for example, should it only affect the enemy you just played against, or anyone in the league? How does having a lot of people with this skill work (since there is potential for this with High Commorragh Kabals as they are now).

Any more skill ideas or changes to existing ones?

Reavers Path (come up with better name if you wan't)
Extra Pointy Parts: +CC
Better Turbo +Speed
Bigger Gun : change splinter rifle to Shredder, Blaster or Heat Lance.
Reflex Drugs: Bonus to being able to dodge and hit
Cargo Drop: Cluster Caltrops and Grav-Talon

Those are what I can think of right now and since I don't know the mechanics of the game you can bring them to reasonable stat mods.

Arch Champion
Death Rider
Arena Champion
Reaver
Trainie

First off; sorry for the thread necromancy. I like these ideas but what about something like using the armour or skyboard (for example) as a weapon.
As for whether calling them warbands or gangs; I think that a gang should be for all models of a warband that are of the same type (e.g. all the wyches) whereas a warband is the whole group, combining multiple gangs together.
If you don't want to make it that complex I think that gang would be better.as I think I has the ring of Lower Commoragh that Warband lacks