1850pts DE/ Eldar Allies

I have lurked on this website for awhile now and now have decided to make an account to see if you guys can help with out with my list for the Bugeater Gt at the end of May. Here it is:

HQ
The Baron

TR
x5 Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Grisly Trophies- 130
X5 Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Grisly Trophies- 130
x10 Warriors, Cannon- 100
x10 Warriors, Cannon- 100

FST
x5 beastmasters, x1 Clawed Fiend, x5 Khymera, x6 Flock- 250

HVY
Ravager, Nightshields- 115
Voidraven, x3 Shatterfield, FF- 185
Voidraven, x3 Shatterfield, FF- 185

Allies
Farseer, Bike, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spear- 128
x5 Fire Dragons, Crack Shot, Tank Hunters
x10 Guardians, Scatter Laser- 95
Night Spinner- 115

Aegis Line, Quad Gun- 100

Basic tactics include the Dragons on the Quad Gun for some Tank Huntign goodness. I wanted to make sure I have atleast 3 Anti-Flier option in my army and with the Quad Gun and the two Voidravens I have that. I have solid shooting with Venoms, the Spinner, and the Ravager. I have 5 Troops, 3 of which are 10 men strong. I am hesitant on the foot Warrior squads, but they have been working great and help out with the mission structure that is run at the tournament. (Tables Quarters based on points, Kill Points, and Objectives in every mission) I have a great assault unit with the beasts amd the Farseer is there to Doom down field and add Deny the Witch Protection and the LD 10 boost.

I believe I can handle Triple Helldrakes because of my Fliers and the Quad Gun. Plus, with Triple Drakes, there wont be much on the table Turn 1 so I believe I can put a very healthy dent in the army before they come on.

With Necrons, I can reliably kill their fliers with mine and the Quad Gun. I am worried about the Necron/Drake combo lists, but again, I believe I can wipe what they have on the board and make them rely on trying to kill all of my ground targets with their fliers.

I think Tau could pose some problems because of all of their Str 5 shootign and Markerlights. But, with the Spinner and my Posion shots I think I can force them to Go To Ground which will help negate their ability to up their BS to godly levels. Plus, if my Beasts get to their lines, it will be all over for their army.

So what do you guys think? Any major weaknesses you guys see? Anything I need to be worried about? Appreicate the help!

Hello and welcome

If you want a competitive list then
- Drop both flyers.
- Drop Clawed fiend
- Drop both x10 Warriors group and add more troops. (atleast 3 more, would recommend x5 Warriors baster in venom)
- Remember dual splinter cannon on vennoms
- Drop grisly trophys
- Isnt aegis def line with quad gun 25pts?

Add
- 2x Ravager
- Trueborns with blasters in venom (!!)
- More 5xWarrior troops w/blaster in venom as said above

On the eldar list I cant help you as I havnt read that much up on them that I can give to much advice on them. I personaly dont like to play allied with them because they dont fit our stile that much atm. As their best units are to slow.
But as I see this list I cant see this doing much against
GK, SW, BA, Tau, Tyranids etc

Yes you can handle some flyers, but as all people who go to turnements, you are to focused on those.
Now we need a alpha strike. If you go with all ground you can clean the board of all essencial threats in first round. Then just move in to positions where they cant target you with their flyers, then snapshot all you want on them. With enough firepower they will go down.

I never use flyers in my competitive lists or quad gun for that mather, still yet to have problems against flyers.

So to make a competitive list, I must gut my list and run venom and Ravager spam? That's laughable.

Voidravens aren't competitive? Ever used one? Great at killing other fliers, and causing havoc on the ground.

The Clawed Fiend is debatable. i use him to soak double out wounds in the front and I have an awesome model for him. I find the 5 khymera switch for him leads to a very larger footprint and causes the Beasts to become too large for the board and my units become too cramped.

Drop the Warriors but add more Troops? They are Troops... Oh add Venom spam, I must have forgot that is the only competitive DE list out there!

There are dual Cannons on Venoms, the price is correct, I would assume everyone would know you put both on, I can correct that I guess.

Grisly Trophies were for the 10 extra points I had.

Aegis Line with a Quad-Gun is 100pts.

Essentially you want to me make a 5th Edition list that includes Venoms, Venoms, Venoms, Venoms, and 3 Ravagers. That doesn't work in 6th Ed. Trueborn with Blasters i believe are an aweful unit. They will never score, when the Venom blows, they all die, and God forbid if you get out... The foot Warrior Squads act as a 3rd Venom because of the combined fire of the 2 Splinter Cannons while giving me twice the numbers and more survivability.

Can you explain how I couldnt kill GK, SW, BA, Tau, or even Nids (very funny) and etc? What lists are so scary with them that i couldnt handle?

I focus on fliers because that is what people bring. With no FW at the event, Necron Air will be everywhere as will Helldrakes. Plus the units I have that handle air aren't just capable of killing air units. They have dual purpose and can fulfill multiple roles. The Fire Dragons are really the only ones and they man the Quad Gun, but, if someone wants to DS or Pod in close to me, 5 Melta Guns is always nice. Plus, if the Quad Gun blows, I can run them across the field and try to blow something.

You dont HAVE to alpha strike with my list. I can take out 2-3 key targets or atleast cripple them enough to where they lose effectiveness. Being able to "clean the board of all essential threats" sounds like such a great idea and is a noble cause, but it rarely happens and if you go big and fail, you lose.

DE don't just throw everything at the opponent first turn and cross our fingers and hope we roll 5's to blow vehicles and hope people fail armor saves with the Poison shots. That was 5th Ed. You have to play much more tactically and use Deployment and Movement phases to our advantage. Too many times are games won on Deployment. Too many times do people just rush everything forward get out their 9 Trueborn with Blasters, only hit 4-5 times across their 3 squads and do nothing to vehicles. Then the enemy just kills those 3 Squads and their Venoms with ease.

If running mass Venoms and Ravagers works for you, great! But in a seriously competitive environment, at a major tournament, that list falls flat. It won't catch anyone off guard, and its been done before. if you don't have problems with fliers, then people either dont run enough of them or you must get lucky rolling them sixes because Necron fliers make mince meat of Venoms and Ravagers. Taking 1 shot here or 1 shot there with random Blasters and such is not how to kill fliers.

Lets be civil here people. You asked for advice, and he gave you his oppinion... Dont fault someone for giving you advice, even if you didnt want to hear it -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-

*Mod Hat Off*

Now for the list. First off I think your is short on troops. Even 10 man squads can be evaporated real quick with tri-helldrakes (the one thing you said you are ok against) and even with only 1 interceptor means that if two come in and you take down one with S7 against AV12, still = 1 dead warrior squad. Lets not begin to add in if all 3 come in... The best defense against a helldrake is to stay in a transport... Also with tau they will just markerlight them late game and remove them from existance

Now your beast squad interests me. Why the clawed fiend??? Also I would say go eldrad and try for the invis beast squad, but again you said you dont like things that have already been done, plus again helldrakes and ignore cover tau...

Why missiles on your Void Raven??? The Void Raven is completely AT build, and by putting AI missiles on it, your wasting its AT potential. If you want missiles, drop to a razorwing and use those 60 pts for something else

Personally I think there are alot of weaknesses to this list. First off you dont have alot of AT. And no, shatterfield missiles arent AT... Your troops are lacking, and your fire support for your beasts is lacking as well. You mention that just hoping to force saves with venoms doesnt work anymore, yet you still included 2 + 2 other cannons. You are right when it concerns only alittle bit of firepower, and your army is suffering from your own logic. You dont have enough firepower with basically 3 venoms and a nightspinner to force enough saves across an entire enemy army. Your beasts will have decent protection against most armies, but there are a few that will make them cry. Your AT is going to suffer against anyone who doesnt follow this "all foot" meta that is magically out there on the internet.

I dont think your list has the right tools to win. But the only thing I can say is try it out and see for yourself. Go playtest it, come back with the results, and move on from there.

Also what darklight means by not needing flyers to compete is unless its a helldrake our mobility means you can get away from their flight path, forcing the opponent to pull them off the board, limiting their shots at your army. Coming in T2 and you constantly forcing him to pull off means he gets at most 3~4 turns of shooting at your forces, instead of something that was on the board T1 and can contribute the entire game until its destoryed.

And contrary to popular believe, there is a reason venomspam still is played to this day. The list works, and the reason it works is due to target saturation and the amount of pure damage it puts out every turn. Its hard to invent a abacus and get people to use it, when you already have calculators...