2000pt Deep Strikers

Thor and Tropheus had me thinking about a full Deep Strike list. What would I run?

Duke Sliscus 150 is a must.

3 Ravagers looks good too. Let's try Dark lances. I want them to deep strike into the worst possible place to shoot my opponent whenever they land, to maximize 36" range. They'll get cover, so no flickerfield. Nightshields will help.

3 Ravagers 345
Night Shields

So, normally I'm hesitant to take the Dais. It's a 200 point ravager with AV 13 all sides, no Aerial Assault or fun upgrades. But it counts as a Raider for all purposes except armaments an AV, right? So, Duke Makes it Deep Strike! It's like having 4 Ravagers!

Asdrubal Vect 440
Dais of Destruction

Wow. Let's stick duke with him, to help fill the Dais.

We still need troops, and we need to fill 8 seats on the dais. I guess warriors would work, but let's milk Duke's toxins (pun!) for all they're worth. Also, that ride's going to attract a TON of attention, so we don't want it anywhere near an objective.

Trueborn, with 6 Rifles and 2 Cannons, that's the answer. Shardcarbines are nice, but excessive on an already excessive unit.

8 Trueborn 116
2 Splinter Cannons

So, that's Heavy Support, HQ filled. We need those troops!

5 Warriors with Blaster in a Venom helps anti-troop out, and they can shoot the turn they deep-strike.

4x 5 Warriors 500
Blaster
Venom, +Splinter Cannon

Scourges are always welcome too. How about some heat lance support?

2x 5 Scourges 268
2 Heat Lances

We need something to draw fire, and do some damage in assault as well as shooting, or our heavy hitters and troops will be picked off at the opponent's leisure. Deep striking an assaulter in can work, but in this list it's too risky. Here, we want infiltrators like Mandrakes, or a Shadowseer and company. I want to go with Harlequins.

6 Harlequins 178
Shadowseer
3 Harlequin's kisses
2 harlequin's kisses, fusion pistols

That's 1998 points. Let's recap:

Asdrubal Vect 440
Dais of Destruction
Duke Sliscus 150
8 Trueborn 116
2 Splinter Cannons


6 Harlequins 178
3 Harlequin's kisses
2 harlequin's kisses, fusion pistols

4x 5 Warriors 500
Blaster
Venom, +Splinter Cannon
Shadowseer

2x 5 Scourges 268
2 Heat Lances

3 Ravagers 345
Night Shields

that's

4 AV10 hulls
3 AV11 hulls
1 AV13 hull

8 Vehicles
46 Infantry

6 melta weapons
16 Lance weapons, (17 with Duke's pistol)
94 poison shots

everything deep strikes, except Harlequins who have Veil and Move Through Cover

Critique? Thoughts?

EDIT: thought you said rifles.

Cannons are great when you're moving 6-0" a turn. How else do you shoot the Dais' guns?

Yes, you lose 4 poison shots. But you gain the ability to shoot 36" with your 3+ poison. So worth it.

no, you're missing the point. Deep Strike is not just for getting close to your opponent. You can deep strike out of their reach, and faster than just moving across the table. check the thread in the tactics forum

I don't think it'd do very well at a WAAC Tourney.
Looks fun though.

I'm *really* neutral on Vect though - the Dias lacks Aerial Assault - so it's like having another Ravager...except not on the turn you Deepstrike. Too many points for a questionable gain to my mind.

why not? also, why WAAC? waac implies rules abuse and cheating. every game should be competitive, even the fluffiest white dwarf list should be played to its fullest.

do deep striking vehicles move combat or crusing speed? losing 2 lance shots once is worth AV13 and being able to target EVERYTHING on the board with 3-12 dark lances every turn

PreacherOfDeath wrote:

why not? also, why WAAC? waac implies rules abuse and cheating. every game should be competitive, even the fluffiest white dwarf list should be played to its fullest.

There is playing to your fullest.
And there is building an army that can win in a competitive environment.

Call it 'building competitively' if you consider WAAC to automatically mean cheating - I don't but since it's an internet term it probably has a lot of interpretations.

I also don't think this army would do very well at a 'competitively built tournament'. If I brought one of my competitive lists to a tourney and saw this list across from me, I'd feel pretty confident I could beat it. Not to sound like a jerk...but I actually think my 1850 competitive build could table it.

Just to compare;

This list
4 AV10 hulls
3 AV11 hulls
1 AV13 hull

8 Vehicles
46 Infantry

6 melta weapons
16 Lance weapons, (17 with Duke's pistol)
94 poison shots

An 1850 list I run in competitive play

9 AV 10 hulls
3 AV 11 hulls

12 Vehicles
62 Infantry (my assault elements deliver 22 and 64 attacks on the charge)

32 Lance Weapons (no pistols)
85 poison shots
1 Flamer template

Is your list 'bad' no, not at all.
Do I think your list would need some work if you wanted to take it to a tournament where people played as competitively as me? Yes, I would advise that.
But I do think the list looks fun, and as long as you're not in a strongly competitive environment I think the list could do a lot of good things - I'd still probably switch out the Dias though Really, you could buy a Raider for Vect and a totally additional unit+transport for the cost of that thing alone.

Thor, how the hell do you get 9 av 10 vehicles and 32 lance weapons in an 1850 tourney list?

By understanding that Venomspam is not the end all be all of DE list building.

6 Raiders
3 Ravagers
5 5 Man Warriors with Blasters
3 4 Man Trueblaster squads

32 Lances is easy as pie to field.
Now, I'll admit as I go up to 2000 I don't get that many more...but, hey, 32 lances is still 32 lances.

Oh, the other 3 vehicles would be Venoms - so - 9 AV 10 vehicles.

yeah I assumed that. Venoms are pretty cool. Why can't they have blasters? Ah well, can't have everything.

Baron Tordeck wrote:

DS counts as cruising speed.

And personally I dont do much DSing as I dont enjoy my army coming in piece meal. But I have yet to see someone successfully DS away from an opponent and it have a positive result.

So, you really don't have much experience with this. It definitely revolves around the mechanic, so if you're not a big fan of playing Drop Pod/Daemon/Deathwing armies, it may not make much sense. Know, though, that these three armies make excellent use of the tactic, and DE can too.

So, you have a list, that differs by the presence of 5 AV 10 hulls.

MSU mech isn't the be-all-end-all of competitive. Nor is it always preferable.

My boring, vanilla 2k mech has 8 AV10 hulls, and 3 ravagers - I'm guessing your FA is empty. I could totally swap out the harlies for another blaster venom in this DS list.

But why? What do I gain?

Being able to buzz around the board shooting is how we win games. Absolutely. But being one-dimensional isn't. I know your list. It's beautifully refined, and tragically flawed. That list may have one more venom (EDIT: Than my mech list), and it may have more trueborn, but it's much easier to beat. Why? Because I know exactly everything you're going to do. Each of your units is meant to do one thing perfectly, and another thing pretty well. All of these things invariably involve moving just far enough away, and shooting the living daylight out of your preferred target.

But because you have such a singular-minded list, I can predict it. I can read everything you do. I know what you will move where and what your contingency plan is when you fail the dice roll. Because I have jump and assault elements, I have infinitely more options. You can't read me back. There may be dice, and you might see further ahead than me exactly when it counts. But it's an uphill battle, this is the warhammer equivalent of playing chess against Deep Blue. By adding enough variation so that the list is streamlined without being one-dimensional, you prevent your human opponent from ever figuring you out. Think of a number between one and ten. 10% of the time, I know it when you do. Now, think of your social security number. I can't possibly guess that.

---

Why is this important, here?

Follow my thought process as I construct this list. It's there. 4 ravagers deep strike into 4 corners of the board, and you can only limit my firepower, not deny it outright. 4 Venoms drop, claiming/contesting objectives, killing infantry, or hanging back to cover the ravagers and land grab later. Harlequins are the wild card - they seem out of place sauntering and somersaulting about midfield. But they deny area, they threaten the center, and they deal with threats I'd rather not shoot, popping tanks and assaulting in equal measure. Vect gives me first turn insurance, so when I drop turn 2 I get the jump on my foe and anything they deployed turn 1 or brought in Dawn of War. I win the piecemeal race.

Do I have less vehicles? Yeah. Do I have less firepower? ...Yes, but not as much less than you think, not enough to matter. Can I arrive anywhere I want, and swiftly redeploy whatever arrives? Yes, a thousand times yes. How quickly does a clear and distinct Target Priority emerge? Depends on the mission/deployment. But I force a LOT of hard choices, and that's how you win tabletop wargames - force your opponent to make too many hard choices. It's even better than forcing them to roll dice.

Thanks for reading this. My RL friend asked me to join these forums, and share some thoughts. I think we can all benefit from this.

My counter would be this; I know exactly what an IG gunline is going to do.

It doesn't make it easy to beat.(and my FA slots are not empty unless it's 1750 or less)

Also, I think having less firepower and less assault power than an 1850 list is possibly a concern with your list in competitive play. If you don't think so, that is fine, it's just my opinion. No worries.

Ive created a MONSTER!!!! lol

Welcome Jon, nice nick btw. It fits you

The problem is that the purpose of this list to be a shooting list, with a quirky deployment strategy. The idea behind the list is fine, and I think the list itself is alright, but you can always squeeze more competitiveness out of any list imho (cause you can always tailor )

But I digress. The problem being is he is going for this shooty list, which is fine and all, but he is lacking the bodies, or in this case the vehicles, to make it work. The biggest problem is the Dias. Its a Raider with more lances and a higher AV, thats nice and all, but your still looking at an open topped vehicle. One Pen there goes your huge point investment. Also it doesnt have good synergy with the rest of the list because when it deepstrikes, you lose two lances, and if it rolls on the board edge, it does the same thing.

For that points, you can field duke n company in another raider, and give Vect his own bodyguard, plus a venom. That gives you another two more platforms, as well as seperates Vect out into a combat unit so he can get his grove on like he should be, instead of hiding inside a shooty unit.

There are some other tweaks I would do, but its late and Im going to bed Hope this little insight helps though.

And again glad to see you on here Jon... Now I got a partner to help me with battle reports

Thanks. Let me know what you think of.

Perhaps the Dais is a problem. Perhaps the HArlequins are too big. The elements are correct, I think, it's the balance that's the issue.

I'd really like to see someone make the Dais work. Is there ANYTHING else in this codex besides Drazhar that's anywhere near as expensive and unwieldy? Even Decapitator and Lelith turned out to be decent. Maybe not here, but when everyone's awake, let's dig a little deeper.

And the guard can do that, to an extent. Autocannon spam is beatable Hydras and all. Blast spam too. A combo? WAY too much variation.

Also, I seem to be alone on this, but everyone here wants DE to be Marines, a bunch of stand-alone awesome units that don't need team support, and so games are largely won in the list-building phase. If I refuse to back down on anything I say, it's this: STOP IT. Check out the thread I'm about to make it general tactics, and see what I mean.