Best weapons for Scourges

I am torn on what to arm my scourges with. I have 10 total and have not put the arms on yet.

I like DLances for the range and such but I already have many options and spots to mount DLances elsewhere.

Considering HLances or SCannons as well.

What do you have the best luck with as far as weapons on a squad of Scourges?

It really depends on how the rest of your army is set up...but as for me
at 2000+pts i use 3 squads of 5 scourges. each squad has 2 heat lances and a solarite with blast pistol and venom blade. Typically i deep strike them.

Very often they drop in and kill a tank, and suprisingly enough live becuase there are 3 ravagers, 40 warriors, and 7 raiders kickig around to distract from them

Lightcavalier hit it pretty accurate above - the real answer depends on the army you are building. But here are my thoughts on the options;

Dark Lance - very bad option. You're paying for jump infantry (which are good at moving) and you're paying for a dark lance (which requires you not to move to shoot) Why pay for both? If I want to run a squad of guys with Lances I'd run Trueborn - who can basically do anything Scourges can do with Lances, but do it for less points.

Splinter Cannon - this pairs very nicely with the Shardcarbine that the squad is packing. It's pretty darn expensive for an anti-infantry option as compared to the usual gold standard - the Venom. But it's not bad. Usually I would field a Venom or some Warriors though if I wanted anti-infantry shooting (or, again, Trueborn). But if other slots are full and you need more anti-infantry this can work okay to fill the void.

Shredder - another assault weapon, so at least a consideration. Personally, I think pretty much *any* of the anti-mech guns below are better than shooting vehicles with a Str 6 blast. I also think that the range anf firepower output of Shardcarbines or S.Cannons which at least have an AP value is better than Str 6 with no AP. But I'm pretty negative on Shredders as a whole.

Heat Lance - Probably one of the two best options for Scourges. The Heat Lance is affordable, has decent range, and after a deep strike move can wreck havoc on enemy vehicles. As an assault weapon it won't slow you down. Many players consider this the best use for Scourges, and I actually think it's pretty solid and would field it happily.

Blaster - Assault, good range, anti-mech. An overall solid choice. Personally I think it's overall a superior weapon to the heat lance, though that is a matter of hot contention. I think the big note in its favor is the range consideration. Heat Lance is good 6" or less - and that's risky to get into, especially via DS. The Blaster is just solid every inch of its 18" range

Haywire Blaster - For me, this is one of the best guns in the codex, and Scourges are one of the only ways to get them - this is how I field my Scourges. The Haywire Blaster is better for DSing in than a Heat Lance in my opinion because the average scatter of a DS is 7" and you'll scatter 66% of the time. Since a Heat Lance is best within 6" it suffers a lot from that. The Haywire Blaster, however, sports an intimidating 24" range that is functionally immune to DS problems. Also, it's the bane of most armies. It can hurt a Monolith as easily as a Landspeeder and laughs at Blessed Hulls. With two of these in a squad you're basically guranteed to somehow negatively affect whatever you're shooting at. Also, as with the other good options, it's an assault gun, so you can DS and shoot, or jump around and shoot.

My thoughts,
Thor.

I'd pretty much only consider Scourges with Haywire Blasters now...

- As Thor said, DLs are a terrible choice for them
- I've found SCs to be quite underwhelming, in practice you're paying 10pts for an extra shot
- Shredder doesn't add much, if anything
- Reavers seem to handle both Blasters and Heat Lances better

Also the Solarite upgrade is pretty ballsy imho, even for a DSing squad

Yeah - I forgot to do Shredders and Blasters (is it obvious I always do Haywire yet?) I'll edit in thoughts.

As far as Solarites go...I think they're pretty meh though I have found viable use for Solarites with blast pistols in lists featuring Razorwings...that said, it's something you really can't do till 2000 points imho.

Heat lances are best under 9" just to clear that up.

The key ive found to my scourges is that for 164 pts i get a squad that is very likely to kill something, but is small enough that it is often overlooked for the greater perceived threats of my army

Good point - I'm always confusing their range with regular melta.

the longer melta range does help with ds'ing , however I think haywire guns are the best due to reliability and stand-off range.

problem you have now is grey knights..... so maybe for a touney (at least at the moment) go with the melta.

Haywires are your best choice. Their extra range gives its a plus compared to Heat Lances, in that you have to be with 9' to get their full effect, and then you can be charged next turn. If you want Heat Lances, go Reavers, atleast then you can move up 12, shoot, and back 6 into cover (you have skilled riders remember...)

I have Grey Knights in my meta and therefore Haywires are not that great if I end up facing them. They are likely to ignore the shaken and stunned results meaning I need some decent dice rolling for them to pay off and I cannot count on the dice being favourable all the time.

Urien Rakarth wrote:

I have Grey Knights in my meta and therefore Haywires are not that great if I end up facing them. They are likely to ignore the shaken and stunned results meaning I need some decent dice rolling for them to pay off and I cannot count on the dice being favourable all the time.

I also have Alot of GK bandwagoners in my Meta as well, but still you cant compete their effectiveness for their point value. In most all comers lists I take them, although if Im fighting GKs, I leave them at home Tournaments have been kinda meh though, as alot of the "new hotness" army lists show up...

Let's consider the GK question more fully and how it applies to heat lances and haywire blasters.

Odds are you are either dealing with a Razorback or a Psirifleman.

So 11-11-10 or 12-12-10 basically.
The math of 2d6 for penetrate/glance gets...complicated. But basically is still about percentages and I translated those percentages back into die percentages.

As an example - Heat Lance vs. Dread with melta effect has a 58.34% chance of rolling a 7 or better on 2d6 and managing a penetrate. So, just as we understand a 33% chance on 1d6 equates to a 2/6 chance so does 58.34% equate to 3.5/6. Hope that makes sense (and if any math buffs see where I'm misstepping let me know - I don't claim to actually know what I'm doing with these numbers ) I'm also presuming you're always dealing with front or side armor - if a GK gunline opponent lets you DS behind him either you were just super gutsy with your DS or he's a player who is probably making a lot of mistakes (also, I didn't want to have to deal with haywire Blaster glance chance *plus* their Haywire effect for probabilities - oy!).

Heat Lance outside of 9"
vs. Dread - 1.3 hit - .2 Glance - .1 chance of something better than shake/stun
vs. Razorback - - 1.3 hit - .2 Glance - .2 Pen - .26 chance of something better than shake/stun

Heat Lance inside of 9"
vs. Dread - 1.3 hit - .195 Glance - .75 Penetrate - .722 chance of something better than shake/stun
vs. Razorback - - 1.3 hit - .143 Glance - .938 Pen - .852 chance of something better than shake/stun

Haywire Blaster within 24"
vs. Dread - 1.3 hit - .866 glance - .21 penetrate - .42 chance of something better than shake/stun
vs. Razorback - 1.3 hit - .866 glance - .21 penetrate - .42 chance of something better than shake/stun

So - looking at the meaningful numbers;

If the Heatlance is outside of melta the Haywire Blaster is twice as good vs. Razorbacks and four times better vs. the dreaded Psirifleman. They also have half again the range (and is cheaper too). Not even a contest, get to walking Heat Lance.

Within the magic melta bubble, however, the Heat Lance steps up its game considerably. It becomes twice as good vs. Razorbacks and a little more than half again as good vs. Psiriflemen.

Now - I will clarify that these numbers do not accurately affect the ability to actually wreck/explode either target - the Heat Lance is *far* superior at actually destroying the target vehicle.

But, the Haywire Blaster is still highly competitive for inflicting actual damage on the targets of choice - does so for less - and does so with significantly less danger when picking a DS location. I'll probably still say I'd rather have Haywires when facing GK - but at least now players can see what it is they're actually debating on those merits.

I always would pick weapon with greater range for them. Outside of remote chance to have cover save, they just die (this is exact reason why I'm switching to Ork Warbikers as troops, outside of T5 and TL Big Shoota). AP 4 is too common and 6++... Well, 1/6 chance to save wound is poop.

Haywire blasters all the way.

Even against GKs, if they are vehicle heavy, then all my lances go on vehicles and my Scourges are last to shoot, but I usually shoot infantry with the scourges in this case.

However, against everyone else, they just plain rock.

I should mention, that there are several builds out there for GKs, and a couple of them ( Yes, I'm looking at you Draigo Wing), there won't be enough armor to worry about and you'll want to maximize shooting against paladins and terminators Deep striking or on foot.

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Haywires are your best choice. Their extra range gives its a plus compared to Heat Lances, in that you have to be with 9' to get their full effect, and then you can be charged next turn. If you want Heat Lances, go Reavers, atleast then you can move up 12, shoot, and back 6 into cover (you have skilled riders remember...)

This. I find that even with 4+, Scourges consistently seem to be one of the most fragile units that I field, so the extra range is what I really like. The ease of glancing something into inaction each turn while they survive is luv'ly.

There is also a healthy nervousness about them amongst opponents when equipped with HB's that is satisfying, and can be a useful distraction.

WRT the fragility, because they tend to be one of the few units that isn't riding around in a transport so they are the obvious target for all the anti-infantry weapons that have nothing to do until transports get popped.

Thor665 wrote:

Dark Lance - very bad option. You're paying for jump infantry (which are good at moving) and you're paying for a dark lance (which requires you not to move to shoot) Why pay for both? If I want to run a squad of guys with Lances I'd run Trueborn - who can basically do anything Scourges can do with Lances, but do it for less points.

I agree, and would go as far as to say that no Dark Eldar infantry should carry lances. Maybe in the earliest days of your army, when you don't have many anti-tank weapons, you might need them but anti-armour weapons need to be mobile.

Rip wrote:

Thor665 wrote:

Dark Lance - very bad option. You're paying for jump infantry (which are good at moving) and you're paying for a dark lance (which requires you not to move to shoot) Why pay for both? If I want to run a squad of guys with Lances I'd run Trueborn - who can basically do anything Scourges can do with Lances, but do it for less points.

I agree, and would go as far as to say that no Dark Eldar infantry should carry lances. Maybe in the earliest days of your army, when you don't have many anti-tank weapons, you might need them but anti-armour weapons need to be mobile.

This being said, I have seen some pretty competitive lists out there with running scourges and TB as your Dark lances quota, as you run venoms, Razorwings, and beasts for AI. The idea behind it is that your AT is harder to take out with just 1 lascannon or missle launcher. It was an interesting list, just definately not my style.

Heat lance all the way for me!

If I am going to the effort of spending points on a FA unit that shoots when it comes out of the portal then it better get the job done - I do not want to worry about it next turn in a never ending cycle of having to shoot it every turn.

Granted, I play wwp and getting Scourges into melta range is simple that way - they are pretty cheap almost sacrificial when I use them (cheapest way to get 2 heat lances) but they go for glory or get wiped out. I tried putting them in the back field, they get the same attention if you got them up close so no difference for me.

Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, milage may vary, etc., etc., etc.,

Actually I ran them with Heat Lances in every portal list Ive done. And had great success with them as well. Ofc at that point they are sucicidal in nature. My problem with scourges in people's list is that they put heat lances on them and think "oh, Im just going to DS next to something and pop it". The problem with this is that it isnt a Imperium issue Melta Gun. Being S6 means you need a 5 to glance a rhino, and a 6 to pen it outside of the half range. Its not a Melta gun where it can pen a rhino on a 4+ outside its half range. With Haywire Blasters, and even to an extent Blasters, they can be effective from a great divation of your DS, and with Haywire Blasters they can be effective from T1 and shoot into your opponents boardedge. That is what makes them different for me from reavers.

Grumpy Kwi wrote:

Heat lance all the way for me!

What do Scourges do for you that Reavers wouldn't?

Deepstrike!

From a portal?

My attitude is looking for both versatility and compatiblity within entire squad. Scourges come with shard carbines that have 18 inch range, 3 shots ,hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's. A haywire blaster has 24 inch range, but now I'm out of shardcarbine range, so I'm wasting 66 points (22 points per scourge) that round with them not shooting. The haywire blaster is S4/AP4, so your average space marine still gets his power armor save, the same as against shardcarbine.
The heat lance has same range as shard carbines of 18 inches. However, it has the BETTER OPTION of going antitank OR antipersonnel. It will vaporize a marine or even a terminator at S6/AP1. If I'm going after a tank, I WILL MANOUVER to get it...and with better success rate than haywire blaster......all this said, and I still like the 2 standard blasters in the squad as preference....LOL.

Removed. My apologies.