Spirit probe and nightmare doll

Just been looking at the dark artisan and wargear for its haemonculus.

Spirit probe gives you a +1 bonus to feel no pain, which it states is 'cumulative with any other modifiers to feel no pain, but cannot improve their feel no pain beyond 4+'.

The nightmare doll states that the bearer adds +1 to any feel no pain rolls.

So the question, which comes first, or does it matter?

The nightmare doll doesn't say it can't improve the feel no pain beyond 4+, but I'm inclined to think that if you take the doll the spirit probe ceases to have an effect, what are everyone's thoughts?

I think it works because of that special wording. It doesn't improve your FNP rule, it gives you +1 to FNP rolls. So you still got only FNP (4+) with Cronos but you pass them on a roll of 3+

This in my opinion was intentional.

My thoughts on this are that the Probe and the Doll affect a unit at the same time.
My reading of the prove rules though would be that it cannot be used in any situation where it would push a FnP beyond 4+. Even if applied first or second, if its affect would aid in pushing the FnP over 4+, then it can't be used.
That's my reading anyway.

mika wrote:

I think it works because of that special wording. It doesn't improve your FNP rule, it gives you +1 to FNP rolls. So you still got only FNP (4+)  with Cronos but you pass them on a roll of 3+

This in my opinion was intentional.

I'm inclined to agree with this. While the result is effectively (operative word) the same - that you're passing FNP on 3+ - the two items are affecting different things, allowing them to interact. Given the supplement is designed to buff Coven units, I'd be surprised if this is not the intention.

The wording of Spirit Probe prevents it interacting with Endurance. Are there any other modifiers for FNP?

mika wrote:

I think it works because of that special wording. It doesn't improve your FNP rule, it gives you +1 to FNP rolls. So you still got only FNP (4+)  with Cronos but you pass them on a roll of 3+

This in my opinion was intentional.

I agree with this.

I concur. It's a bit like the difference between a +1 modifier to hit and a +1 bonus to BS. Have the same basic effect but by different means.

OOOhhh Babaay!

i see where you're going then, the spirit probe makes you pass feel no pain rolls on a 4+, while the nightmare doll modifies the result of the actual roll.

Guess I need to make a few more points available then...

It only works for the bearer though, not the whole unit.

Timatron wrote:

It only works for the bearer though, not the whole unit.

Even so, makes the whole unit even more tasty, I can see myself using this as my first option list!

I'd have to playtest it to be sure, with L.O.S. , I.D. and variable F.N.P. there are lots.of variables.

Oh wow I never noticed that, the Dark Artisan formation just keeps on getting sexier!