What would you like to see in a DE tactica?

Greetings all,

I'm not sure why, but I feel the need to write up a fresh tactica. Maybe it's the new dex? Maybe (and I think my money is on this) it's because the meta game has finally stopped shifting every month due to drastic gameplay changes? Maybe it's just because some people asked me, and I see that fresh influx of new DEldar players making all the same old mistakes?

In any case, I'm actually already writing it up, so it is on the way. That said, I started wondering what i could do to improve it.

So, basic question; what is something you'd like to see in a DE tactica?

Deployment? People often ask about deployment - should that be covered in some manner?
Allies? Should I go over our allies and talk about potential combos? Or just state that they are out there?
Should I go over the Coven and Realspace detachments in any detail from an army building concept, or just mention a few quick pros/cons compared to CAD?
What about pairings - I talked a lot last time about best builds but didn't always indicate best HQ pairings and the ilk - would that be good to do? Or is that more up to the individual?

Any and all thoughts appreciated,
Thor.

I'd say deployment is probably crucial for us, and, in extent of that, positioning:

I sometimes see people moving out one threat at a time into the face of a (usually shooty) opponent, essentially offering up their army in bite-sized chunks.

As for allies, I think the only one that really deserves an exposition would be CWE

I don't think going into detail about the detachments is neccessary, seeing as they are pretty self-explanatory

As for pairings, I think there is certainly something to be said in pairing HQ's with a certain unit (which I think answers the question "what HQ's to take" pretty well)



Anyway, good luck and have fun writing it! Looking forward to the result!

Tactica is such a broad area, to write one that covers all aspects of the game would create a book whose size rivals a telephone directory.

Deployment alone, as you know, can be so intricate and detailed it boggles the mind. Each army would need to be deployed against differently, and the composition of your army in relation to theirs would effect it even further. Facing off against an IG army.... Do they have Wyverns? If so, do I deploy my jetbikes or not? Do i deploy them more than 54" away? Are wyverns a threat to raiders? (Certainly) to ravagers? (nope)

I think an overview of the units available, and their strengths and weaknesses would be very helpful to a lot of players. But to try and make a detailed tactica covering everything, that may be biting off a lot to chew!

as a new dark eldar player, I would really like to see deployment AND targeting priority tactics, especially in response to jumpy armies (drop pod marines, dreadknights, crisis suits etc). Also, and this is probably too specific for a general thing, but a look at how to get the most out of having a succubus as my only HQ and no grots/wracks/other good melee units other than wyches.
Ummmm...maybe also when to deploy units seperately from their DT and when to keep them in (I have had success in my one game [lol] with deploying my venom and 5 man kabalite + succubus separately)

Good thoughts so far.

Maybe a description of the concept behind the principals of deployment/target priority? That could be more concise yet still be a useful building block tool. Albeit not a purely DE one.

I could also definitely talk about my facing trick - it works pretty well for DE considering the shape of out vehicles.

@Kahnartiste - am I allowed to say 'use on display shelf'

I would very much enjoy reading this, Thor.  

As for what I would like to see aside from deployment and target priority, would be your thoughts on reserves and whether it is worth it if you are not taking any sort of reserve manipulation but may be facing a pseudo-alpha strike list with 3-4 drop pods but not a whole drop pod army.  

Additionally, if you could identify the 2-3 units that you think every DE list should include and why, that would also be helpful.  

As for the Coven supplement, I would find it useful if you talked about how the top three formations that most people seem like they are using (Grotesquerie, Scalpel Squad, Corpsethief), are best used with the regular DE codex and when you should consider taking the formations.  

And finally (I know, I know), I would find it helpful if you gave some list examples you might run if you were facing some of the dominant lists in the meta right now such as Serpent Spam, Tau, Grav spam, Knights, Triple Flyrants, etc.

But other than that...

I like tactics and read through the internet primarily for new ideas. There is an abundance of "take this unit/take this load out/take this army list". I appreciate those articles and enjoy reading them. However, what I've found lacking is a general discussion of detailed strategies.

What I mean:

General deployment, movement, army traits, and target priority can be found. Not all of the articles are well written. I'd love to see your take and would value it.

I haven't seen much out there that discusses a detailed approach. How do we take advantage of DE speed? We know our army is fast, but why does that matter in a real scenario?

Army building - rather than a discussion of best in class for each particular unit, how do you build a list? Do you flood shooting and sacrifice close combat? Do you make a hammer and anvil, but forget mobility? It almost seems like a non-army specific article on building a take all comer list would be very valuable to new and old players. Then providing more detail on the good/bad building block for DE. Just focus on role not unit.

The reason I say the last part is that while I know a unit may be sub optimal I'll use it anyway because I think it looks cool.

My two cents. I'll read whatever you put together and enjoy it.

I would definitely address unit selection (like every tactica) as well as equipment selection. I'd love to see more attention paid to the formations/detachments. A section on the artifacts would be great. A summation of common army build types would also be slick. Finally, I think a section on allies is pretty important, these days.

I look forward to seeing the tactica.

Skulnbonz captured my attention with his comment about deploying bikes 54 inches away.  I think you should discuss movement and if there are some time proven measurements we should keep in mind, I'd love to know them and the rationale behind them.  

I wonder if this shouldn't go in a separate thread but I'd love to see a top 10 threats and solutions.  For example, I've read on this site that walkers are a real problem for DE.  Are they in the top 10?

Finally, I'd be interested to know if you think your tactica works at any level.  What do I mean by this.  Well, I like bikes (reavers).  They're fast, can be lethal to troops and vehicles and good value.  Perhaps, tournament level players are going to figure out that they should target them early before the PfP tables kick.  Consequently, they are great when on the board but in tournament level play get destroyed to quickly and easily.  

Just my thought.  I lack the experience to say whether this is true or not.  I'm more the person making mistakes others have already made before.

Thanks in advance for your effort.

I would love to see tactica centered around target priority for each of the different armies. It's a very broad subject which is why I don't think it gets touched on nearly enough, but it's also why I think it would be a great topic. For someone like me who doesn't know a lot of the other armies intimately (I only have DE and I only get to play once ro twice a month) a "cheat sheet" would be really useful.

I used to be a big fan of reading ArenaJunkies strategies' for WoW arena teams. I specifically liked the "I have team X, how do I counter team Y".

Relating this to Warhammer, I would absolutely LOVE a comprehensive list of how to best deal with every single army in the game. This could mean army composition, target priority, things to watch out for, things to not care about, etc. This is obviously a huge undertaking but would be very helpful to me and I'm sure others.

Just an idea and not sure how useful it would be but I wold love to see something about unit synergy or force multipliers. So even though I know you hate Wyches maybe put in something about how they can act as an anvil for reavers. Then of course cronos etc etc.

In terms of deployment I'm personally terrible at this but trying to decide reserves, how much is too much and how it changes based on who you're playing and what you're trying to accomplish.

Well, iv'e already boggled you with deployment question.

There is one thing however that you probably shouldnt dedicated much time into - unit by unit analysis. You've already do this job with Splintermind, and done it good. Those kind of discussions fill the interweb and at the end of the day they only give that much aid.

Maybe more broad how-to's are better suited, like how to deal with a shooting force, how to deal with mass drop pod assault, how to deal with ignore cover etc.

I would like to see some more DE-focused tactica to the exclusion of allies.  I'm not the biggest fan of buying an extra $50 book so I can cherry-pick a couple of formations/units...heck, I haven't even picked up Coven book yet!

Maybe some more about making the best use of the core book?  I know Realspace Raiders is popular, but I'm curious what other lists would work well.  

Beyond that, maybe some theme ideas for using the core book since DE army is *all* about synergy.  I see people pop Talos into lists without really understanding why sort of army they work well in (and I admit I'm a bit in that category too).

Just a proposition!

Numbers.

I'd love to read it, looking forward

like someone said, dont go deep into a unit by unit analysis. Maybe compare units roles and what they bring to your list, like Ravager vs blasterborn.
What roles need to be filled and what units they deal with. Balance of at vs ai. not too much math hammering at least

I'm interested in all of the above

But also in Dark Eldar vs the Metagame: how does DE compete with other codexes, when should we try to outrange or rush with target saturation, etc. How does our flyers compare with the others?

What do we have that nobody else have (other than the coolest models)?

A lot of this has been said already, but I'd like to see a tactics that focuses on, drumroll please,tactics! Not unit builds per se, but how to address particular opponent styles, through deployment, ranged shooting, baiting etc.

Deployment is a key one to my mind, going first or second? And then target priority on turn 1.

If you do go into more detail on lists, how about looking at some themed lists (so a high toughness army, or close combat for example)

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

A lot of this has been said already, but I'd like to see a tactics that focuses on, drumroll please,tactics! Not unit builds per se, but how to address particular opponent styles, through deployment, ranged shooting, baiting etc.

I tried really hard not to take offense to that   I still think a resource defining good and bad unit loadouts is important though.

Mononcule wrote:

But also in Dark Eldar vs the Metagame: how does DE compete with other codexes,

It doesn't


(maybe jk)

Khordajj wrote:

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

A lot of this has been said already, but I'd like to see a tactics that focuses on, drumroll please,tactics! Not unit builds per se, but how to address particular opponent styles, through deployment, ranged shooting, baiting etc.

I tried really hard not to take offense to that   I still think a resource defining good and bad unit loadouts is important though.

Mononcule wrote:

But also in Dark Eldar vs the Metagame: how does DE compete with other codexes,

It doesn't


(maybe jk)

My opinion is that defining good and bad loadouts without context is a no-value information and leads to netlists, which are too general an non-related to particular metas. For me they never worked. As for the second point - every meta is different, so that cannot be covered even if Thor tried to. :-)

For me - a tactica covering synergies, deployment, movement tricks and other tips would be much more valuable than unit-by-unit breakdown.

Shbur wrote:

I used to be a big fan of reading ArenaJunkies strategies' for WoW arena teams. I specifically liked the "I have team X, how do I counter team Y".

Same here. AJ is still a real good source of information.

Some ideas:
Going first or second?
Alpha strike deployment vs Null Deployment tactica
Stealing Objectives: ObSec or not ObSec?
Sky control: do it or ignore it?

Those topics were already discussed here and there, but a good compilation of these threads in a single tactica would be nice.

I see a lot of requests for dealing with enemy armies.

Off the top of my head, barring allies and not worrying about supplement armies/alternate chapter rules - there are 10 other armies than DE, and you would need to do a De v. DE one, so 11.

The thing is - every answer then varies by what your DE army is. Are you MSU shooty? Big Coven brawly? Even if I were to say there are only 3 possible DE builds (hah!) that is 33 separate types of matchups with different priority and goals. And I just realized I forgot Knights, so 12 armies.

So if I was to go into that sort of discussion, it would need to be very broad strokes. Like 'your DE shooty army vs. a shooty army, or an assaulty army, or a mech heavy army'.

Would that be useful still?

Perhaps just pick some of the more common and dangerous units and offer some thoughts on how to deal with them. Wave Serpents, Knights etc.

With regards to DE vs. the lesser races, would it perhaps be easier (albeit still a fair amount of work, I imagine) to do it unit by unit, rather than full armies? That is, listing the strengths and weaknesses of enemy units and what in our codex is effective against them. Perhaps coupled with the requested guide on target priorities.

That combined with a guide on deployment and movement should provide a resource for players to learn how to play the army without explicitly telling them what they should be using when.

Whatever you end up including, I think the most important thing to explain is why. Why is X good/bad? Why is X a priority/insignificant? Why should I do this instead of that? Understanding the why allows players to extrapolate and apply that knowledge to other situations, yet a lot of guides simply state the what.

I think that an overview of each possible army we can face with suggestions of how to deal with them might be very useful and not that much taxing. Like "with Necron, you can expect this and that nastiness, however, they have a weakness there, disadvantage there, watch out for this unit though, best approach to deal with them would probably be this..."

In more detail of course, but helping people understand the threats, not the numbers in stats, if you know what I mean.