A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

Meta busting can be fun.

I havent had time to get on this assignment. I probably wont have time until Sunday at the earliest as far as fginding the units, though I could definitely say the Fighters/Bombers in the Tau arsenal are underused as are Stingwings. Both can be potent but they need the right list around them.

For Dark Eldar it was the Court of the Archon for quite some time.

For Space Marines, I'd say Sicarius doesnt get much play but he can be good. I also think that Eldar D-Cannons fly way under the radar.

among the coolest Chaos units is the lowly Mutilator. its usefulness has been made manifest ot me and I know not many people own those.

So a real quickie here. Last night my Tau (played by Unorthodoxy) once again were victorious - now 4-1. J baited a deatstar and won on points. The batrep is here ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uwG-oCCCT4

I also got to play this list ...

== Deathstar Necrons ==
Vargard Obyron 160
Overlord: Phaeron, Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave 150
2x 5 Necron Warriors 130
Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, TL Tesla Carbine 25
3 Sentry Pylons: Focused Death Ray, IWND 525
Transcendent C'tan: Transliminal Slide, Wave of Withering, Seismic Assault 860
== 1850 ==

I fielded my 'unbeatable'  Eldar

== Summoning Eldar ==
2x Farseer Runes of Witnessing Spirit Stone of Anath'Lan Phoenix Gem -- 270 (summoning)
2x Warlock - 70  (conceal/reveal)
3x 5 DA Wave Serpent Scatterlasers  -- 555
3 Windrider Jetbikes Shurikan Cannon-- 61
2x 7 Swooping Hawks -- 224
6 Swooping Hawks -- 96
Wraithknight Wraith Cannons -- 240
2x 3 D-cannons  -- 330
== 1850 ==

I barely survived being tabled. I managed to kill a Tomb Blade and both Warrior squads. His C'Tan was on one wound. Despite that i had enough spawned troops to actually make a game of it. He kept killing and i kept spawning. Luckily it was not a KP mission.

C'Tan is very very bad. He is small enough to hide which is really really bad. C'Tan is a T9 GMC with 6 wounds and 3+/4++ saves that's small enough to hide and can dual wield D strength hellstorm templates. Take Transliminal stride and the thing moves 18" per turn while running over anything in its path with strength D hits. Average lascannons shots to kill (BS4, no cover); 54 - Missiles; 81 - Autocannon shots; 244 (122 autocannons)  .It down and it gives zero f**ks about poison or snipers. In h2h it has WS6 8 attacks initiative 5 and d3 stomp attacks. AC'Tan saves on a 3+ then he gets 4++, then FNP, then it will not die, then blows up with 4d6" str10 ap1 radius of pain.

So this guy had 6D6 kraal missile shots and a hellstrom template and slide. Hooboy. That is just nasty personified. But to toop it off Transliminal Stride uses a "Sweeping Attack" style move in place of its normal move that does Str D to all models it moves through.

I've already discussed a split fire deathray, relentless , gating sentry star in this thread. When you have a deathstar of doom and two potent HQs - well it becomes quite intimidating quickly. It is similar to going against an 1850 IK list. In fact a sentrystar and a C'Tan are IMHO as strong as a five IK list. The Necron Hqs are better.

That said I made a game of it and nearly pulled it off - I made a number of very dumb mistakes. I should have really deployed a lot a better. I just did not spread out properly and he was able to target too much with the sentry pylons each turn. A lesson learned. I did manage spawn about 600 free points in daemons though, lol. Thing is there is no cover from the deathrays. That really hurt - a lot. Conceal was useless a lot. I did though have way more units on the table as as such could grab objectives and attack from all angles. It was just that he shrugged off a lot of my weapons easily.

And if you are wondering - you can play the C'Tan at 1000 pts too ...

Necron Overlord, Staff of Light 95
2x 5 Warriors 130
Transcendant C'Tan, Sky of Falling Stars, Transliminal Stride, Wave of Withering 775

You can beat it with luck and a lot of grav. Or your own D-weapons. The best units against it are grav centurians - can take it ot in one turrn - or IKs if they roll 6s and get lucky. Otherwise he tables you at 1000 points ---

That's what is so disconcerting to me. How does someone play against this and come away thinking that allowing this stuff in games is an excellent idea? Oofta. Terribad way to go against new players.

I dunno. Just crazy pants nutsoid. That thing besically requires something equally evil on the table to ruin its day, yeah? Short of that, I mean...

Who does he lose to and why?

TBH, you can win against it but you need - as I said above - either grav or a heck of a lot of dakka or a mission that punishes so few units on the table. Now my summoning Eldar actually had a chance. I summoned both plague drones and daemonettes ( rolled incursion - so good). My problem was hiding my units from his sentrystar ( ignore cover). He added the sebtrydtar also to take out grav centurions - it bypasses invisibility. So you need to know your primary targets and play carefully and smart. I made mistakes.

How does it bypass invisibility?

The focused death ray does not target the unit. So invisibility is not an issue. It picks a spot on the table and rolls for 3D6. If the line passes through the invisible unit they take the damage. Invisibility and jink, which rely on being the target of an attack, can be circumvented by Deathray style weapons. Beam weapons target points on the table, not units, so invisibility can not prevent them from getting hit if the beam's line passes over them. So you have 3x S10 AP1 3d6" splitfire beams (fired up to 24") that double all hits, which ignore invisibility and jink.

As to what can compete with such broken lists ... well

Farseer: Jetbike, Spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'Lan 135
3x Warlock: Jetbike, 2 Spear 160
5x 10 Guardian Defenders, Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon 1075
2x Wraithknight 480

Spawn daemons all game and keep highly mobile. You have ten units with Ob Sec here. You can afford to sacrifice - especially spawning as well.

that death ray is pretty slick if it ignores invisibility. the wehole thing is really powerful.

So on Sunday I get a rematch against my friendly neighborhood Necron player. I told hom that the Transcendent C'Tan was banned from almost every tournament format. So he said he would kindly remove him. I agreed to play my same Summoning Eldar list. Since he knew my list i requested his.

== Deathstar Necrons ==
Vargard Obyron 160
Imotekh the Stormlord 225
2x Harbinger of Transmorgrification, Tremorstave 50
C'Tan Shard: Gaze of Death, Time's Arrow 275
C'Tan Shard: Writhing Worldscape, Swarm of Dust 240
C'Tan Shard: Pyreshards, Transdimensional Thunderbolt 245
2x 5 Necron Warriors 130
3 Sentry Pylons: Focused Death Ray, IWND 525
== 1850 ==

Oh, yay. So instead of one big C'Tan i get three small C'tans and his IMPROVED deathstar. Make no mistake here. Imotekh is one bad##s HQ. He can steal the initiative - so alpha striking sentrystar. He has night fighting AND and a lightning bolt that screws over every unit on the table. He has a C'Tan with writhing worldscape making difficult terrain difficult and dangerous ( yes both) and two crypteks with 36"blasts that create difficult terrain from open ground. Am I happy facing this? Well, yes. It is perfectly legal - and allowable at major events (a sentry pylon list - albeit NOT the deathstar - appeared at BAO and did quite well). I'm going to have to null deploy a fair bit of my force - I don't want him alpha striking me away, lol. But I have to be careful too - I don't know when the reserves will arrive.

So I have discussed sentry pylons before buy I want to emphasize the they are Canoptek Artillery. They can move and fire WITHOUT any crewmen. So it is a T7, 3+, W9 unt with two tanking HQs that can fight and can DS out of cc. This is ridiculously good. Dealing with three beams that ignore cover and split fire - well.


This will be a bloodfest again. Who will win the rematch? Post your predictions. A recap of my list if you are too lazy to look for it:

== Summoning Eldar ==
2x Farseer Runes of Witnessing Spirit Stone of Anath'Lan -- 230 (summoning)
2x Warlock - 70  (conceal/reveal)
3x 5 DA Wave Serpent TL Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon  -- 585
3 Windrider Jetbikes -- 51
3x 7 Swooping Hawks -- 336
Wraithknight Wraith Cannons -- 240
2x 3 D-cannons  -- 330
== 1850 ==

But I'm considering running this:

Alpha Strike Eldar (1850)

Autarch, Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Fusion Gun, Lance, Banshee Mask 150
3x 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlaser 555
3x 3 Hornets, 2 Pulse Lasers 720
3x 2 War Walkers, Scatterlaser, Brightlance 420

Wave Serpents - 3D6 + 1 S7 shots - ignore cover.
Wave Serpents - 12 S6 shots
Hornets - 18 S8 AP2 shots
War Walkers - 6 S8 AP2 shots
War Walkers - 24 S6 shots

Are you counting - that is a likely 72 shots between str6 - str8, with variable deployment options (scout) and battle focus. If you survive turn one you have a chance. Not the best chance, lol, but a chance.

Let mayhem rule!!!

List 2. The list can respond to his deployment and initial volley and help destroy the pylons I think in the 1-2 rounds (maximum) you will ever have to try.

The fact that you can outflank and get around his cover better also attracts me to list 2. it may not entirely handle cover but better to have the option than not.

Both lists are crazy 0.0
I love the hornets you're bringing. Pulse Lasers are crazy awesome.

I'm wondering about the Mantle on the Autarch, unless you keep hiding him behind LoS blocking terrain won't be be singled out and killed easily by those deathrays? Since they ignore cover and won't even really be wasting shots on a single unit as they can just split fire, and I'm assuming he'd be your warlord so it'd be worth the shots. Otherwise it is an awesome loadout for him, he just lacks bodies to take the hits for him.

Granted I'm not very experienced with forgeworld stuff, as I myself have never used any forgeworld units, only seen them used.

Yes.The Autarch will be killed. But I did not tailor the list - it is the list I play and I do not like to tailor - evn it it seems like I am with this list. The autarch will start in reserve of course - I need the +!.

I will likely on turn one lose a few units. It cannot be helped with a sentrystar on the table. But turn two and three I will make my comeback. Hornets and Warwalkers should destroy that star with any luck ... if not I might have some trouble. Those HQs can only tank so much for the pylons.

We eagerly wait for the reports of victory to stream back to us from the front.

OKay so here is the Coven list I am contemplating.  UNfortunately, the Haemonculus of doom I wanted to put in the army is too many points because as it turns out I needed another Haemonculus to get my list the way I wanted it.  So.  I am going to make a trade for the Talos I need to do this and then test it out.  

Grotesquerie (Freakish Spectacles)

140pts Urien Rakarth

190pts 4 Grotesques (Aberration W/Agonizer, Liquifier Gun)
60pts Raider (Aethersails)

190pts 4 Grotesques (Aberration W/Agonizer, Liquifier Gun)
60pts Raider (Aethersails)

Corpsethief Claw Detachment (Freakish Spectacle, and Scout Special Rules)

650pts 5 Talos (Feel No Pain, TL Haywire Blaster)

Covenite Corerie Detachment (Freakish Spectacle)

85pts Haemonculus (Liquifier)
85pts Haemonculus (Liquifier)

120pts 7 Wracks (Acothyst w Flesh Gauntlet and Liquifier, 1 x Liquifier)
60pts Raider (Aethersails)

120pts 7 Wracks (Acothyst w Flesh Gauntlet and Liquifier, 1 x Liquifier)
60pts Raider (Aethersails)

120pts 7 Wracks (Acothyst w Flesh Gauntlet and Liquifier, 1 x Liquifier)
60pts Raider (Aethersails)

2000 Points

You have spent 105 pts on liquifiers alone...do you consider that wise? I LOVED liquifiers in their previous incarnation, now they are S3 AP(D6) and for triple the price...I realize that's not fair to compare between editions buts where I start with them. Looking at them from a standalone light, S3 weapons usually struggle against many a target unless you have high volume (read IG). Personally I think the only way to use the liquifier is twin-linked on a Talos...for that reroll to wound. They may work here simply because there are a bunch of them. Ultimately...I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm unsure of the liquifier and its viability. I'd suggest ossefactor instead but thats another idea of I'm not sure how good this really is...though Ap2 is always nice I suppose.

I like the list though otherwise...I may have considered venoms and 5 man squads of wracks, but I know you wanted some additional AT in there.

The Hull Points are important and the Disintegrators are too. The Wracks may get whittled down to 5 in the end, but I'm wanting to give them some ablation for when they get blown out. It will also make hem better at assault if it comes to it. 3 attacks on the charge after a pair of Liquifiers hits the enemy? Not bad.

This is a first shot at it. Results will tell us whether or not Im getting to use them enough. But STR 3 works really just fine on Seraphim and no one complains about those, and they are AP 5. So...

I hope the best of course! I don't know anything about sisters...because well no plastic models...and not seen much. I think people complain about other things with regards to sisters hehe.

IM a veteran of many Sisters of Battle victories and can tell you: no one has ever cheered when their STR 3 Flamers show up.

So my Necron opponent bowed out and forced me to play against another new fellow. This guy was someone i never met before and was sporting a brand new army:

Company of the Great Wolf

HQ – Bjorn the Fellhanded w/ Helfrost Cannon, Drop Pod 255

Elites - 2x Venerable Dreadnought, Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield, Drop Pod 360

Elites – 3x Venerable Dreadnought w/ Helfrost Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Great Wolf Claw,  Drop Pod 540

Elites - Murderfang, Drop pod 170

Fast Attack - 15 Fenrisian Wolves 120
Fast Attack - Drop pod 35

Allied Detachment:

Knight Errant 370




I copied the other stuff straight from a sheet he brought with him:


Bjorn - Master Tactician is +! on seize the initiative (you want to go first). He is AV 13/12/10 WS/BS6 with a Master-Crafted S10 AP2 claw with Shred and a Heavy Flamer. He also has the 5+ inv save. This guy is uber resilient.
Ven Dread - WS5, BS5, S6, I4 A2 12/12/10 HP3
Helfrost - 24" AP1 Str 8 or a AP3 Str 6 blast
Great Axe - S User x2 AP2 Master Crafted
Blizzard Shield - 3+ Inv.
Great Wolf Claw - S User x2 Shred
Murderfang -  Murderclaws are Strength 7, Ap2, Master-Crafted and Shred. So basically, you get 2 re-rolls to hit in close combat and can re-roll all your failed to wound rolls. It has Furious Charge, It Will Not Die, Rage, Rampage, Muderlust. He can get up to 10 attacks.
Fenrisian Wolves - no longer can be troops BUT can claim objectives - although not ObSec.

As you can see nasty in a way that is unexpected. I do have a list though that destroys armour - I field Swooping Hawks baby and have d-cannons - so 3 HP is not scary at all. But I brought the OTHER list. And that really was the big difference - I went after Bjorn and Dreads  - I just needed to block off his dreads and take the fire  I really enjoyed playing his list. That IK was extremely nasty and I could not take him out - Errant - but in the end he just did not have enough threats that could reach all my units ave some firepower. Assaulting into stomp is also iffy. He played very agressively with the IK and Dreads but I spawned too many daemons.  

Still four pods in your face turn one ( and he went first - Bjorn) with advancing IK with fen wolves was an interesting match up. He was very effective turns one and two. I had to wait to get my hornets on the table and really my AT is good but not when he is in assault early. I had to sacrifice units to keep him off the wave serpents and move those WS away from his assaults. Now I had the dakka for sure - but he had the saves. I had nothing to counter his cc either. So I played to the mission and kept as mobile as possible. In case you forgot  - my list :

Autarch, Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Fusion Gun, Lance, Banshee Mask 150
3x 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent, TL Scatterlaser 555
3x 3 Hornets, 2 Pulse Lasers 720
3x 2 War Walkers, Scatterlaser, Brightlance 420

So that is a crap load of mobile shooting against a walker list, lol. I just had to move and deploy wisely. But he went after objectives and pretty much dared me to try and take them away while he fired back with his dakka dreads and IK. So it was not a 'give me' match up. In the end I pulled out a narrow victory by destroying a dread and taking an objective last turn. Also got first blood and linebreaker - neither of us got warlord.

Interesting how he decided to deploy too. He knew i would be moving - but he got turn one. Now he cannot assault out the pod - thank goodness  - so he deployed his shooters and moved up his IK and wolves. He attempted to block of lanes  with the pods and dreads to limit where I could reposition  - You do not want to be too close to the IK, lol. And then he was very good drooping in the assault dreads once he penned me in a bit.  

My edge was most certainly the hornets - they take out a dread a turn with relative ease. You can only make so many saves. Had I gone with the summoning eldar list - which I left at home thinking I was playing Necs - I undoubtedly would have taken him apart much easier ( 21 hawks and daemons to block - oh yes). As it was I managed a to squeak a win against a nice guy and we both had fun.

Wow, that sounds like it was a great time.

It was a great time. I told him today how I would adjust the list to be a bit more TaC oriented ...

Company of the Great Wolf

HQ
– Bjorn the Fellhanded, Helfrost Cannon, Drop Pod 255

Elites
- 2x Venerable Dreadnought, Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield, Drop Pod 360
- Murderfang, Drop Pod 170
- Iron Priest, 3 Cyber Wolves, Stormwolf, TL Helfrost, TL Lascannon, TL Multi-melta 350
- 5 Wolfguard Terminators, Thunderhammer and Stromshield, Chainfist, 2 Wolf Claws, Stormwolf, TL Helfrost, TL Lascannon, TL Multi-melta 455

Heavy Support
5 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers, Long Fang Ancient 165

Fortification
- Bastion, Comms Relay 95

This list still has four dreads but instead of an IK it has to assault flyers that might be the best in the game. It also has that sneaky Iron Priest that can assault out the stormwolf too. It still has plenty of cc punch and plenty of dakka. It will also reliably get your guys on the table.

The Storm Wolf is something I'd like to face. The guy who took second at the Ambassadorial Tournament used one and i was the Organizer so i couldnt watch the game as closely as I'd like but by all accounts it was effective. I've not even seen the Space Wolf codex nor the supplement, so I am really in the dark as to what Space Wolves do now. I guess eventually Im going to find out the hard way but in the meantime, mind breaking it down for me?

Stormwolf tactics ...

First off it is a flyer transport with a 16 model capacity. It has an ASSAULT ramp ... really. The Assault Ramp is awesome for getting infantry straight out of the vehicle and into close combat while the Power of the Machine spirit helps us to fire an extra gun... usually at a second target. This is quite awesome. Now it comes with the aforementioned TL Helfrost Cannon. As a quick reminder ...

Dispersed: Range 24", Strength 6, Ap 3, Blast, Helfrost
Focused: Range 24", Strength 8, Ap 1, Heavy 1, Helfrost
Helfrost removes a model on a failed strength test, btw, so it bypasses eternal warrior.

It also has a TL Lascannon and can get a Skyhammer Missile launcher instead of TL Heavy Bolters. The Skyhammer is a long range autocannon that is S7 Ap4 60" Heavy 3 but you might want the TL Multi-meltas - now you can take out any flyer or tank.

Now running it with 16 models makes it very pricey. But you can use it with a few packs of blood Claws at only 60 points a pop and fly it in and do some heavy damage. Now it is only 12/12/12 HP3 so you have to be careful. However as a dedicated transport it has ObSec. So here is the list I would play with stormwolves:

Herald Deathwolf, 2 Cyberwolves 220
WGBL, TWC, Black Death, Armour of Russ 230
2x 5 Blood Claws, Stormwolf, TL Lascannons, Skyhammer Missiles, TL Helfrost Cannon  550
2x 5 TWC,  2x Chainsword/Meltabomb, 1x Wolf Claw/Stormshield,  Ix Power Fist/Stromhield, , 2x Chainsword/Storm Shield 630
Sicaran Battle Tank, 2x Lascannon Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, Twin-linked Accelerator Autocannon, Schism of Mars (Rapid Tracking) 220


Lets discuss the Sicaran as it is allowed at most venues. Accelerator is  48" S7 AP4 heavy 6, Rending, with rapid tracking (ignores jink saves). The tank is 13/13/12 HP#3. Schism of Mars and Ceramite is good. Now all of its shots are Tank Hunting, it has a 4+ against haywire and is immune to melta. It is the premier wave serpent hunter in the game and decent AA as well. Not to be forgotten the icing on the cake is that the Sicaran is a fast vehicle.

This is a pretty mean little list with four ObSec slots. You have undoubtedly by now learned to fear t-wolves. There is not much that sytands up to them. Having characters that can detach make them all the more frightening.

Herald Deathwolf is a great force multiplier -- his unit vcan outflank with acute senses. He also makes TWC stubborn with furious charge in his 12" bubble. He is also S8 on the charge himself with a stromshield and W4. So not bad at all. And to be extra nasty his relic makes him immune to flamers and pyromancy.

Now you other wolf lord is also pretty buff. Black Death is a  S+2 AP2 Frost Axe that gives +3A when outnumbered. My kind of rampage. And the armour of russ is a Armor with 2+/4++. It forces a -5 penalty to initiative in a challenge. So this second HQ is pretty buff as well.

If you have have come this far ...

White Scars Primary Detachment: 615
Kor'sarro Khan: Moondrakkan 150 (warlord)
2x 5 Scouts: Scout Sergeant, Combi-melt, aLansdspeeder Storm. Multi-melta 260
5 Bikes: 2x Grav, Sargeant Combi-grav 145
Stalker 75

Space Wolves Allied Detachment : 1235
WGBL: TWC, Runic Armour, Black Death, Helm of Durfast, Wulfen Stone, Stormshield 225
5 Blood Claws: Stormwolf, TL Lascannons: Skyhammer Missiles, TL Helfrost Cannon 275
Iron Priest: Thunderwolf Mount; 2× Cyberwolf 135
6 TWC, 2x Chainsword/Meltabomb, 1x Wolf Claw/Stormshield, 1x Thunderhammer/Stromshield, Ix Power Fist/Stormhield, 1x Chainsword/Storm Shield 380
Sicaran Battle Tank: 2x Lascannon Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, Twin-linked Accelerator Autocannon, Schism of Mars (Rapid Tracking) 220


So we put it all together here. Kor'Sarro Khan makes the t-wolves into a fierce deathstar ... he grants scout and hit and run. There is no way you are going to stop a second turn assault. And then you will face the stormwolf flyer and your scouting land speeder storms. There is little reason not to use Khan in the deathstar TBH. This list really pours it on fast and early.

We still have the big tank - sicaran but we also added its little brother. The Stalker is your second source of AA and anti-skimmer. It has skyfire and servo-tarcking (it can fire 4 S7 BS2 shots at two separate targets or pick one target and get 4 twin-linked shots at  BS4). You can use skyfire against skimmers remember.

So yes, we are geared to take on daemon FMCs, Nid FMCs, Eldar and DE skimmers and flyers. In cc very little can handle the deathstar squad.

The WGBL has interesting relics - super rampage/furious charge/reroll hits/rage 2+/3+ save. He is quite a beast on the charge. He runs with Khan and Priest and Wolves for a scouting hit and run deathstar

So yeah. That Storm Wolf is awesome.

Bullgryns can load up and move out in that thing. hmm.

The thing to bear in mind with that final list is the type of units the list handles with efficiency. When you can redeploy half your army, have a flyer come in from reserves and have ObSec and units capable of grabbing early maelstrom objectives - you force your opponent into playing a game of catch up against an aggressive army with a plethora of both cc and dakka units. Not an easy task. The stromwolf becomes the least of your worries in the final list. If you choose to go without the white scars it is more integral to the list as it has your only ObSec units.

My choice would be to use White Scars allies. Now at a tournament like the Ambassadorial where you can use one codex only - well the first list will do just fine (assuming the sicaran is not allowed substitute other heavy support or another stormwolf squad).