A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

Amazing post egorey! Down with the arm chair generals!

also those big combat deathstars are exactly what wcyhes are designed for so if they make a comeback to general meta wyches will once again have a use

I completely agree with you Duck.

Bravo! Yes indeed i agree to the thrust here Egorey (Duck). Each army has nuances. I don't want to make it sound like rocket science or something. But they do and "seeing" that nuance is the critical skill. That cannot be done without experience and a little practice.

Your Tau list is fortunate in that it gives no one an easy unit or set of units to key in on. It has the virtue of not truly needing to BE on the board really, and so those uber fast armies can come crashing down if they want to to annoy or kill a Riptide, but the Riptide was just the red herring.

In other games that same list will see the Riptide become a central pillar against which the enemy Psyker powers will be held in check and its preservation will be important but not critical.

The beauty of 40K is that if you can learn to fight in a miriad of ways, to adjust and to recognize the priority of threats, you go a long way to competing with the Tony Kopachs of the world.

That does indeed only happen when you stay the course. My frustration with the Haemonculus Coven was high but I kept using the list with very minor changes and i went from barely squeeking out wins to mastering it. The same happened with my Night Lords. First few games taught me the tolerances of the list and with VERY minor tweaks to HOW I used it, I turned it into a great list, but could not have dont that if I had given up on the concept.

When I tested your Tau empire list I did lose to Daemons as I mentioend and did struggle in th early going as i learned what to place and what not to place and when. But I got better at it and its record is very good (1 loss). It will take a couple games to figure it out but once you get the flow and TRUST in the late game gambits, you will enjoy massive success.

Good gaming.

very nicely written, Egorey, and oh, so true - nothing replaces experience. As someone who does not play regularly or often, I am always extremely jealous of those who can and do, and their easy sense of familiarity with the nuances of their armies.

As for your Sneaky D's Eldaquin list, the past 2-3 months I have been using a list with a Blaster Archon and 4 Blasterborn with a WWP, a Succubus also with a WWP and some Liquifying Grots, a big mob of Mandrakes, 2 squads of Scourges (either both with HL, or one HL and one haywire squad), a Talos and Cronos (frustration factor), a few other odds and sods, and Kheradruakh ..... I mean, a Culexus Assassin.

It has been whole lot of laughs to play with, and not without success. I can drop or sneak in almost whatever I want, wherever I want, and my opponent has no idea what to expect next. I am now becoming comfortable with the list in its variable sizes, the only thing I couldn't handle yet was an Achilles Pattern, but it stayed in my opponent's deployment zone and I just ignored it by staying in cover or in combat.

I am looking forward to slipping a Solitaire, DJ and Shadowseer in as well, where I can.

Looking at Necrons again. How can we build a list without many of the bells and whistles we get from detachments?

Dual CAD Necron: 1850

HQ: Destroyer Lord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Nightmare Shroud
HQ: Destroyer Lord: Voidreaper, Phase Shifter, Phylactery
EL: 2x Triarch Stalker, Heat Ray
TR: 3x 10 Warriors
TR: 10 immortals, Night Scythe
FA: 5x 1 Destroyer
HS: 6x 1 Heavy Destroyer


So this list is just a hoot and a holler ... stalkers keep moving up marking targets. Destroyers are single units ( the dlords will join only unit of two and then split off on their own). They will constantly move about. The ark is there for cover and a bit of a nuisance. Nothing fancy here. So you have choices. You can DS the Dlords if you choose to. Your opponents problem is the number of units. Sure you will likely concede first blood ( if you go first maybe not). But you will be attacking on so many fronts. Everything but the stalkers are pretty darn mobile as well.

Now you might wonder why there is no destroyer cult here. Simply, it is not what we want. We want multiple small units of one to harass the opponent. The stalkers will provide our buffs. So even without decurion we can compete. And do not dismiss 30 walking warriors ... they are not too shabby at all. So really you will constantly move and fire. Regular destroyers are very good AI with the ability to hurt transports too. Heavy destroyers will wreck vehicles and 2+ saves. Your HQs will mop up anything relatively easily. Your stalkers will have giant bulls-eyes on them. They are bait and you will likely lose at least one by turn two or three. A smart opponent will not let them survive - so walk a squad of warriors in front of them.

This is as close as i can get to a plug and play list. Honestly, just put it on the table and you should be able to identify your targets pretty quickly. You have the mobility and flexibility to go to town.

Oh I am most definitely in agreement that you don't need Decurion to play Necrons.  I have not needed the Decurion once.

Say I have a tidbit for you:

Destroyer Lord with a Solar staff.  Add 20 Flayed Ones.

The Monolith drops, pulls them through and no one can shoot them and they SURe dont want to fight them.

When it drops in the Solar Staff shoots the NEXT furthest unit away (Blind check), and uses the Solar staff to make all shots against it BS 1.

Net result:  it lands with impunity and "blinds" the two units potentially close enough to effect it, then rams a very large and uncomfortably sharpened piece of metal up the enemy's posterior.

I am afraid this combination may be so ridiculous that I will try it...  At a tournament...because I can.

So if you wanted to go all-out J and be really mean  you run Conclave of the Burning Eye ( OP IMHO). This formation is from sheil of baal, exterminatus, mephrit dynasty and can be inswrted into any necron list. Now for a deathstar unit this is relatively cheap indeed. And as a formation it can be dropped into any list. A nightbringer will kill any MC in cc in the game.

C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Cryptek + Phase Shifter + God Shackle
Cryptek + Phase Shifter + Veil of Darkness
Total 455

If you want to really nasty you add solar theramite on one of the crypteks as well. It just makes the unit even better in cc. Also a chronometron is not half bad too. It could replace  phase shifter easily enough.

This is effectively an 8-Wound T8 MC with 4+/4++, 5+ FNP or 4+ RP that can Deep Strike and Jump cross-table with the C'tan Powers and some S5 AP3 shooting for close-quarters.
Each Cryptek can be Look out Sir'd by the other Cryptek, and by the Shard, allowing you to share the wounds much easier and that some of the MC special rules (like MTC) rub off on the Crypteks, making them only marginally slower than the Shard itself when footslogging.

Phase Shifter: Make your Crypteks more survivable (except vs Instant Death) than the C'tan is - a 5++ inv is not to be sneezed at.
The Veil of Darkness: Allow your usually slow C'tan to jump across the table. Let me make this clear. on turn one this allows the cryptek and his unit to jump acroosss the table. Now you can wait because once per game it is used to remove from play (even in combat) and deep strike anywhere on the board using the deep strike rules. But having this formation in your opponent's grill turn one could be awesome. If he elects to null deploy - wait.
The God Shackle: As long as the Cryptek is still on the table, one nominated C'tan Shard has +1 Strength and Toughness. This means it can now shrug off bolter fire ( a weakness of C'Tans surprisingly)
Solar Thermasite: Cryptek gets +1 S to all weaponsand re-rolls Saving Throw rolls of 1. Yeah, definitely good in the conclave.
Chronometron: A 5++ against shooting. Cryptek's unit only. Look at this very carefully, it buffs your whole unit.

Now, While your Shard lives, the opponent always uses the C'tan's Toughness when rolling To Wound anything in the formation. I'll say again - anything.

Forbidden Knowledge: The C'tan has Feel No Pain. 5+ if both Crypteks are alive and 6+ for one. Not too shabby.

Just as a comparison and by way of explanation ---

The Nightbringer's gaze of doom is more powerful than the random shooting ability. The random shooting ability should be viewed as a bonus. A large number of str 8 attacks, some of which are ap 2, is great in melee.

So let us compare the cost of running this ctan with the cost of running 5 assault terminators plus a captain. They are almost the same cost. Same number of wounds, 4++\4+++ is roughly the same as a 3++. Same strength. The difference is you get to be toughness 8, and have shooting (good shooting too), and have melee attacks that are not at initiative 1. What would you rather field? And assault terminators are slow and without a veil.

Now just one last thing.

Gaze of Death: In its Shooting phase, in addition to using Powers of the C’tan, this model can target one non-vehicle enemy unit within 12" to which it has line of sight. The unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to 3D6 minus its Leadership, resolved at AP2 and with the Ignores Cover special rule. If at least one unsaved Wound is inflicted, the C’tan Shard of the Nightbringer immediately regains one Wound lost earlier in the battle.

Take note. This is not a shooting attack. You can use this ability in CC, out of CC into a unit that is in CC, you can select FMCs with this etc. It does not need to be used in conjuction with a Powers of the C'tan attack. You can run and use this ability. That is why we tale the C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer!!!

It took me a little time to read through this all.

That is QUITE the deathstar. That is NOT overly expensive for what you get.

Its a really slow unit which is its real issue. But it certainly stands like an advancing rock of Gibralter in your army. the Veil does solve it's problem once so you need to choose wisely where it will go.

I like it. where is this Formation listed?

It is in Shield of Ball: Exterminatus.

SHAKE UP THE META BOYS!



So J and I postulated this as a combination of our two deathstars ...

Deathstar One: HQ and bodyguard
Destroyer Lord (Solar Staff, Philactery, Phase Shifter)
w / 15 Flayed Ones
Monolith
= 685

Deathstar Two: Conclave of the Burning One
Nightbringer - 240
Cryptek (Veil of Darkness, Phase Shifter)
Cryptek (God Shackle,  Phase Shifter)
= 455

Troops: Support the assault
2x 15 Warriors
= 390

Deathbringer Flight: Attack of the Giant Croissants
2x Doom Scythe
= 320

It is self-explanatory. The doom sycthes are your FMC killers and great AT. If the extra formation is not allowed then just stick them in heavy support. The formation grants a boost in BS and a nifty -1 to opponents' LD but it is not strictly necessary. A list like this also needs warriors to back up deathstar one. If you read J's tactica on the flayed ones and you see mine on the conclave then playing it should almost be set 'em down and start attacking.

Lol.  That pic is so weird.  

What I am so intrigued by is how many different combinations of Necrons look fun.  You can really explore the miniature range with this codex without fear you'll simply never be "competitive".  Lots of things seem to work and so the internal balance is good.

Against other codex's, I'm seeing the usually doom and gloom, but ironically I have both not lost using the new Necrons nor have I been beaten by them.  So like Ive said before, I am finding it hard to evaluate its true power level.  I think the Decurion is rightly feared, even though it does poorly when dealing with later game tactical heroics by the enemy.  Enemies who wait a little longer to make their moves will find Objective Secured units a huge advantage over a Decurion.

It is hard to generalize too much because the variety of Necron lists right now is truly a thing of beauty.  Each one has its own tactica.  Canoptek Harvests push the field hard and fast while Warrior based lists can null deploy.  The Destroyer Cults are really good at chomping down hard on a flank and cutting through the enemy from one side of the board, while the Gawds en masse can gang up on units and obliterate them while laughing at attempts to take them down.  Then there are the vehicle heavy lists that dare you to try and kill so many relatively quick and deadly AV 13 hulls, and the aerial attacks they can bring are as impressive as ever if a little more sane to face now that the Croissants are more appropriately priced.  

It's not my favorite codex, but it is providing me with a lot of creative outlet right now.  I have allowed my Necrons to be borrowed already in two tournaments and they have not brought home ther gold, the silver or the bronze so I mean, I dont see compelling evidence that they are ultimately unstoppable.  I do think they are really decent and underestimating them would really be a bad idea.

Well adepticon had interesting results .. the top two players had variants on screamerstar - bar in mind that Nick Nanavati won with a pure deamon list so a lot has to do with the general. The second deamon list had allied CSM generaled by Alan Bajramovich . Third was a necron list and fourth was a wolfstar/bike list.

Adepticon does not publish lists. So it you need to wait for the list from the players. Nick released his list ...

Fateweaver

2x Heralds of Tzeentch Level 3 Discs, and Exalted Reward

2x Herald of Nurgle Level 2, Greater Reward (one Locus of Fecundity)

10 Pink Horrors

11 Pink Horrors

2x 8 Screamers

8 Plague Drones with Venom Sting, and Champion with a Greater Reward

Now day one Nick hardly summoned at all ... he just used his drones and screamers to wreak havoc.


So we can postulate on what codex is the strongest. Daemons seem to be uo there for sure but the necron codex competes, wolfstar as discussed is a contender too. I believe Eldar were in the top ten as well ( how could they not be, right?) Now Tau was present but the format hurt them. IKs did okay overall too but everyone metagames for IKs now.

When looking at tournament results it is is hard to say what works because so much depends on who is playing the list. When top players decide to play a particular codex they generally win and they also tailor for that particular event and for lists they expect to see.  

Adepticon was a battle points tournament this year. There were two people that walked away  undefeated. In case you are wondering you can go 4-0 and not qualify. Day one of the Championships is determined by Battle Points not by win loss. So you need crushing victories not minor victories, So a guy with 3 crouching victories and a loss beats a guy with two minor wins and two crushing wins. Joshua Taylor a new up and coming young player went 4-0 with a Tau list built to beat FMC (three skyrays, lol) but never made day 2 - not enough crushing victories. Had he met Nick day one who knows - he feels he would have beat him. This allows a very good player - read Nick - to win his THIRD adepticon, lol. Winning on secondaries will hurt in this format. You need to be experienced enough to win on primaries.

After seeing these results I foresee the inclusion of culexus assassins added to lists ... even with OEO these guys can infiltrate and outflank and still work in a lot of lists - think necron/tau who need him. Read this:

http://warhammer-tau-army.blogspot.ca/2015/01/the-culexus-assassin.html

Here is the thing - do you want to face an army with 12+ WC and invisibilty? Even if ypou don't face psykers in a particular match up during the course of a tournament you can still kill vehicles, MCs etx., and if you run across nasty psykers ... well.

Well, those are my thoughts for the day.

Hello guys, I have an inspired (incredibly) small point and scaled down list of Egorey's tricksy Eldar list. Right here is the list:

HQ:

Illic Nightspear 140 points

TROOPS

5x Rangers 60 points

5x Rangers 60 points

FAST ATTACK:

Crimson Hunter Exarch 180 points

5x swooping hawks including an Exarch with a sunrifle 121 points

NO FORCE ORG SLOT

Warlock with a witchblade 35 points

121+180+60+60+140+35= 596 points


Overall, the list is pretty tricksy but it gives a lot of options and tactical choices. For example, if i am facing a shooty army I am going to want to put less on the board as the less turns my opponent can shoot, the more turns I have the advantage. So what I could do is put Illic in a LOS blocking area and then put the swooping hawks on the table for stability if any of the reserves do not come in. Now with Illic on the second turn I can deepstrike in the rangers next to him and shoot shuriken pistols into the enemy, this can be a surprise to anyone and with Illic's ability to infiltrate anywhere can be a mighty boon to the enemy as deployment is key. Once the reserves come in, then the swooping hawks can sky leap and later on deep strike to harass enemy vehicles or infantry with blind and haywire grenades. The warlock also offers psychic defense and support as well hindrances to the enemy, and the crimson hunter is a great anti-air and anti-vehicle flyer, and with 180 degree rotations, it is very mobile.

I think this list would be a blast to play, what do you guys think?

I play to the mission pretty hard so Adepticon sounds like a good time.

On the other hand, i do use a more subtle kind of list so maybe not?

Hmm...  Hard to tell.  I mean I do win by good margins more often than i don't (when I win at all) but I've never been above sneaking one out when the enemy is simply superior and I am forced to accept that superiority and meet it with guile.

I dunno.  Anyone think I could do well there with that format?

One of the keys to the original list I posted was a few very good cc units in the heroes path. It also has a WK which really is needed as a large distraction. I'm not sure how your list will work at 600, TBH. You have no cc no real distractions other than the hawks.

J - of course you could compete. Why would you question your ability. Of course you would be up against some of the best players out there but I think you would relish that sort of competition no?

Basic principles apply to adepticon:

- Force concentration and using your speed and deployment options to take on a piece of the enemy army with all or most of your own, crippling them as fast as possible before he can react is one tactic that was used by Nick and his daemons if you read the report. He never deployed along a whole table edge but choose a flanks on which to focus first.

- Target priority is important. Focus first on things that don't care about your daemon bonuses and worry less about small arms. You need a tough enough list to withstand S$ shooting regardless.

- Play the mission. Rack up points in Malestrom of War missions and concentrate on late-game objective grabs. From Turn 4 onwards be sure to have a plan to grab objectives with your units, even at the expense of sacrificing something, and keep the score in mind at all times. Careful planning can snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat.

So J - this is how you play anyway (I've seen your battles on youtube). If you read Nick's reports this is what he did. He outplayed his opponent and relly it was his skill not the list that won him the tournament.

Another interesting thing to note  - the daemon lists used Fatey as an almost auto-include. The problem with daemons is that their randomness can often hurt you. The ability to re-roll ( warp strpom, invisibility, grimoire) and the access to a lot of psychic disciplines is too good to pass. When playing daemons you adjust game by game (what powers do you want to roll for, do you want to spawn) and that it what keeps them competitive in an adepticon type format.

I'm not arrogant enough to feel im unbeatable so I thik its a legit question to ask how I might do in a format I'm not used to or familiar with against Generals I've never met right?

The dice and terrain play a part as well. I am probably going to end up going to a big event eventually (Bay Area Open being the most likely first one, as it is the closest) but I see the online reports and I see good players playing. But a dude that made it 4-0 not moving on is kind of... I mean that's pretty notable. And Ive never been one to crush peoples necks if winning is imminent so I will admit that it will make me slightly uncomfortable if I am given no choice but to press down and press down hard. Remember the "Massacre" scoring system that was being used for a while in 5th Edition? You essentially had to try and table people and it was in one of those tournaments i won my first one and i STILL always remember how distasteful I found that experience. Sure I wanted to win, but embarrassing opponents isnt what I'm all about. I even use "crazy" lists just so that people won't feel that way.

I suppose that all goes out the window when you're competing at an Adepticon.

In any event it gives me pause. Maybe it won't be as bad as I'm thinking or maybe the opponents will be so good it doesnt come up. Or both!

So I played my last game with my CSM force last night prior to shipping it out. I need new funds to finance my meechanicum list, lol. I knew it was going awhile ago when I started building my Legio list but I was awaiting payment and final details. So the list I used ...

HQ: 230
Typhus (warlord - in bastion)

Troops: 442
18 Plague Zombies (in bastion)  
4x 20 Plague Zombies

Fast Attack: 230
3x Hell Blade, Helstorm Autocannons

Heavy Support: 445
Chaos Relic Fire Raptor, Reaper Batteries, Balefire Incendiary Missiles, Warpflame Gargoyles
3 Chaos Rapier Weapons Battery, Hades Autocannons

LoW: 370
Chaos Relic Typhon, Armoured Ceramite

Fotification: 120
Bastion, Comms Relay, Escape Hatch


The Typhon i borrowed from my friend Chris as I do not own one. I played against a fairly standard Wave Serpent spam list - even had FD in a serpent. Well they did not hurt my Typhon. Ceramite plated Typhon, AV14, HP6 throwing out a 7"blast that is Str10 AP1 and ignores cover. WTF? This should not be allowed in a game under 2500. I surrounded it with one zombie fearless, FNP squad.

Now the only answer to Typhus in his list was a WK - and that is an even match up which he did not want to try. So my Fire Raptors and Hell Blade did some WK duty and took out Wave Serpents.

This is a tough list. I was duly impressed by the Fire Raptor (once again). I'm going to miss those models a bit but I find that when I field them I do lose credibility as 'just a casual player'. I've been asked by friends not to field it, lol.

CSM overall as a codex is weak - only guys like J win with raptor maulerfiend lists. The competitive guys ( and you can see this in tournament lists) are turning to FW to shore up their CSM be it rapiers, fire raptors, typhons or fellblades or they are cherry picking the best units to be used as allies to daemons. Thing is that CSM have CHEAP ObSec troops. This makes them a pita if designed to take advantage of that fact.

Now about that helstorm autocannon ... The Hell Blade from IA:13 became 30 points cheaper, has 2 HP, has a Helstrom Autocannon 36" Str 7 AP 4, Heavy 3, Twin-linked, Rending. Plus it has a 5+ Inv save and can be repositioned D6+2" in any direction before moving, keeping the same facing. Also it can nominate any one enemy Flyer, FMC or Gargantuan and reroll 1s that turn. Wave serpents do not like it. Nor do FMCs, flyers or any other skimmer. Sure it is fragile - but you take two or three and laugh.

Now, finally - Rapier weapons batteries are sick. A T7 platforn with multiple wounds that is 36" S8 Ap4 Heavy 4, so that battery of 3 can fire 12 S8 shots a turn. Even snapfiring at flyers and FMCs they are decent. This might be the best unit of all in the IA:13 book.

Now the list above was built initially with FMC and Flyrants in mind. It happens to be okay against Tau and Necrons too. When fielding 100 zombies your opponent has a lot of work to do.

And oh yes - that Eldar match up - ran over it 16-0 ... turn two I did a lot of damage.

Go Chaos!

Nice! Good to see chaos beating a powerful list!

I played against a necron force with the decurian wraiths x2 and that Ctan nightbringer/cryptek formation. 1850 game. He had 6 wraiths the ctan and crypteks 20 warrior blob with 2 IC's (dont remember) and then 10 warriors in a arch and then one of the vehicles that makes him respawn warriors into his 20 man blob or whatever. I ran my 1850 list http://www.thedarkcity.net/t11939-1850-list .Can i just say wow their reroll shenanigans is absurdgetting like 4 rolls per model to save it because you can stack reroll of ones and such just rediculous. I was able to kill the Ctan formation turn two but it took all of my shooting over 2 turns to do it. I was lucky enough to get the rest of his army tied up with the CCF which allowed me to then pretty much rule the rest of the game. I only lost 1 venom and all of the talos. Pulled out a 8-3 victory in tactical escalation and almost tabled him.

Thoe rerolls are back breaking.

yet...not game breaking. thats what Im seeing. We gottas be fair here. Its their "thing" but if their "thing" isn't stopping us from winning a FAIR amount of the time then its probably okay.

Ive not used Decurion myself or needed to but nonetheless your score tells me that itwas more FRUSTRATING, as it was with me, than actually game breaking, am I right?

Ok. I am determined to make the new Khorne Daemonkin codex broken, somehow some way there is a way to make shenanigans, these are daemons mind you. As I am looking at the dex I'm noticing some cool things and I am also noticing some pretty terrible (yet fluffy) things. I am not a big fan of the "decurion" formations they can get. From how briefly I have looked at it I do not see how it's different than a CAD or something. In fact to get the things you want you end up spending points to get stuff you don't want... Unless your idea is to max out on bloodletters (which is totally valid and the one thing I am wanting to try)


So if I were to run this codex this is how I would do it. I will show the first list I built and then I will suggests other lists that tickle my fancy.

1850 ( this list is like 47 points under but that's easily fixed with squad upgrades or what have you.)

(Originally I was only planning on running flying Daemon Princes which is still probably a great choice but...)

HQ:

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage: 275pts

Herald 55 pts + Korlath the ace of Ruin (60pts) = 115pts

Troops:

Bloodletters x7 +1 Bloodreaper +5 pts = 85pts

Bloodletters x7 +1 Bloodreaper +5 pts = 85pts

Bloodletters x7 +1 Bloodreaper +5 pts = 85pts

Cultists x8 = 80pts

Cultists x8 = 80pts

Cultists x8 = 80pts

Lord of war

Lord Of Skulls 888 + Skullhurler 60 = 948



So here is how the list supposedly works.

Like I said I wasn't a huge fan of running the bloodthirsters because of the ridiculous amount of points they cost and the difference between them and a flying DP is arguable. But then I saw that I could get two for free and have a list that by the end of the game can have 3 blood thirsters and a Lord of Skulls.

So I don't know if you have caught it yet but this list has 2 D weapons right off the bat. Yes they are in melee but SO WHAT!!! you will get into melee. not only that but I have given the Lord of Skulls a Skullhurler this is a S9 AP3 Apoc Blast weapon with a 60" range. It took me a while to cipher the arcane dialect of Khorn but I think this roughly translates to ~ "Free Tithe points".

How do I get my first free Bloodthirster do you say? Kor'Lath the axe of ruin- once the bearer of it is reduced to 0 wounds it automatically becomes a Bloodthirster of Unfetered Fury, it has to take D3 wounds with only its invuln save but there is a very good chance that it will not matter.

The third or even 4th Bloodthirster comes with the Blood for the Blood god tokens. basically you will keep two units of cultists in reserve and then put all of the other troops in a congo line in the front of the table and just walk them up the board being as reckless as you possibly can. Hopefully by turn 2-3 you have 8 tithe points and can get your other summon. That's what the cultists in reserve are for you need a character alive that can chance into the thirster and you still need to beat a LD check. Maybe it would be worth it to bring a CSM unit instead of two cultists for a sarge out of that but an ld at 8 is still pretty easy and for a third Thirster well worth it. Hopefully it just becomes too much for the person to handle once those big monsters start getting into CC then What will they be able to do.


The skull of thrones is amazing and I hope that they allow it in League play but if not then it is super easy to ally in Tzeentch flying circus and use those well known shenanigans for 948 points, a Fateweaver and 1 DP will go a long way.

In my brain the way to play these guys is to manipulate Blood Tithes and to just go head first at the enemy. I'm talking massed MSU with (depending on your fancy) More Daemon Princes or Less Blood Thirsters (I have a feeling the DP's will probably end up being the way to go? But i figured I would give it a try).


Now some of my other thoughts.

I Khorn now have amazing DS shenanigans and can run a surprisingly fast army. I have a dinner meeting in 30 minutes and will just throw some things out there real quick to touch back up on later.

Banner with Khorns Bloodstorm

Making a very fast Gorepack list (this is what I want to build next Move through cover!!!)

and Bloodletter spam lists with max BL in the core and Charnal Cohort. (16 UNITS!!!!!! another summon shenanigans list)

This army loves death and destruction they will ramp so hard (better than DE PFP table) and they are Daemons so everyone loves them....

I will just point this out now I think the power lies in Loads of bloodletters with mid tier Tithe points spent to make them unmanageable


What do you guys think? (I am not saying 100% that this will all work these are just my initial thoughts)

Interesting observations. I think that the fast gorepack is the best way to use the new codex. This has to be the meat of the codex. Anything else just supports the gorepack. The problem is that you do not want the formations that are replete with chaff units you do not need. I'm also not sold on the bloodthirster summoning. The 'thirsters will just not get into melee early enough to be major factors and as you mentioned you need that character. As tempting as the slaughterhouse cult is I would avoid it also.

You also have options now that are very nice ... I can use flesh hounds and bikes and soul grinders in the same list with heralds and juggy lords. So MSU obviously is needed to get all those perks from blood tithes and what stands out is FNP, furious charge and rage.

Something like this can be inserted into any list ...

Daemonkin Gorepack

3x 3 Bikers- 2 Meltaguns each
3x 10-14 Fleshounds (these would not be MSU in my list)

Then get your cultists, soulgrinders or even skull cannons and HQs (heralds and/or juggy lords) to support. Turn two you will be assaulting. As for troops - chaos marines with buffs, 'zerkers and cultists all work as MSU. Exytra attacks and FNP, I believe to be the strength of the codex.  

Interesting observation - this codex is much like the DE coven lists. You are waiting on turns 2+ to get all your lovely bonuses.

No doubt the codex has some legs. Will it survive the current meta at tournaments. I'm not sure. I need to spend more time with the codex.

I agree totally the strength of the codex does not lie in the thirsters or even the daemons princes. It lies in MSU getting blanket buffs very easily. The A and FNP were the ones I had my eyes on other than the summons, trying to pass a leadership and spending 8 tithe points on getting a bloodthirster is just too risky and not reliable. I just wanted to make a hilarious list, if everything goes just as planned it is brutal.

Maybe using the detachment rules you can max out the troops on letters or cultists get a chaos lord on bike put it with the gorepack and then ally in some TZ 2x heralds on disks with a screamer star to make a super fast list, get grimoir and such. Those beasts having scout and the bikes having MTC is so much win. Two of the gorehound units would be absurd. And if I am not wrong since the bloodhounds are beasts their scout move is 12". There's lots to do with this formation.

I really hope people are able to get the Lord of Skulls into games though. That thing is nasty.