Lady Malys and her magical Bag of Holding (2000 pt WWP – All Foot)

I've been dabbling for some time with Coven and Wyche lists, liking some models not liking others and even warming to the Raider. My latest OCD moment (spur'd on by the thought of finally having an appropriate Lady Malys model via a Lhamaean stand-in) has been to get Lady M into a list. She offers lots of goodness for a not so rich price. This might be a blonde moment of list building but for some crazy Idea I think I can make it work quite effectively (at least for a time).


HQ

Lady Malys (1) - Her stuff

Haemonculus (1) – Liquifier, Power Weapon, Webway Portal

Haemonculus (1) – Shattershard, Power Weapon, Webway Portal


ELITE
Grotesques (9) – Liquifier, Aberration, Flesh Gauntlet (Malys & 2 Haems go here)


TROOP
Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wyches (8] – Haywire, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

Wyches (8] – Haywire, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

Wyches (8] – Haywire, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser


FAST ATK
Beastmaster (2) – Khymera (5), Razorwing Flock (2)

Beastmaster (2) – Khymera (5), Razorwing Flock (2)


HVY SUPPORT
Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Total 1996


I see the set up as simple yet tactical.....nothing is deployed except Lady M, Heam's and Grots all in one big nasty nasty fat squad. Everything else is held in reserve.

The fun part is Lady M's ability to redeploy. If you go first and know exactly where you want to start Lady M then you can bring out a single"show piece" unit like a Talos in the hopes to manipulate your opponents set up (push them back, make them choose a corner, etc). Knowing that you can redeploy at least one unit, thus sucking the Talos back into Lady' M's "bag of holding". Or you can simply deploy Lady M's unit in such a way (far back corner, etc) in the hopes of causing your opponent a little grief knowing that you have the option to pick that big nasty unit up and redeploy elsewhere (maybe all the way on the other side).

When I was looking at my lists I noticed (duh) that a good portion of points is spent on unit delivery system, i.e. Raiders or Venoms etc. A necessary evil and most people don't have much faith in them living long having lovingly dubbed them "Paper Airplanes". Unfortunately these "planes" on average cost upwards of 70+ points. I was thinking is there a more durable way to spend those 70 points, I mean thats the cost of 2 Grotesques and yes the Grots are more dureable...Hmmm, but now I still need a way to get those troops up close meaning a Webway Portal and 2 is better than 1 (if not more).

Enter, the Bag of Holding part.
Move the Grots up and drop the 1st portal, maybe even choosing to leave that Haem behind and go running off with Lady M, Haem and the Grots pushing forward....Any 2nd round reserves come in and follow the Grots forward or move elsewhere (if need). I even have the option of joining that Haem to a newly arrived unit to share the pain, unless of course he happened to draw attention as opposed to the running Grot blob of doom and was killed (he should be ok though between the portal getting in the way and a Grot cover shield).

Now the party is rolling and rolling fast and it only gets worse if you let the Grots live another turn (which you probably can't help) they'll maybe drop another WWP, but you can't forget about the groupies.

With an all foot slogger army I'm usually less worried about most vehicles, for example A GK Psyrifleman dread worries "paper airplanes" but not so much a Grot with FNP and the better than average possibility of a cover save. Most AT Vehicles are designed to kill vehicles (duh), and typically have a much more limited effect on troopers.

So Maly's just keeps dropping units (A LOT of them) out of the WWPs (her Bag of Holding).

Now the question is.....can 9 Grots and 3 ICs survive a round all by themselves? I think so. I think given you have the option of redeploying at times, immunity to psychic attacks, a decent toughness and lots of wounds, backed with the ability to use cover and FNP, they can survive more than 6 "Paper Airplanes" could. Can they move as fast, no but thats secondary here as this list is that not so small snowball rollling down hill, the longer it's allowed to go the bigger and worse it gets for whomever is unlucky enough to be at the bottom.

I think it has merit and could be a lot of fun, and yes with most things that have large upsides for fun they have just as much potential for epic ruin. The list is definately not for everyone and thats not because of the over $900 USD retail price tag (man GW sheesh).

I have been toying with an option or two; one was to replace a Talos with a Cronos w/ Vortex so I can token up the other 2 Talos and Wyches. That move also allows me to take another Beast in one of the Beast units. The other was to drop a few beasts and try and pick up a 10th Grot (the only reason I started with 9 vs 10, is I have 9 Grots and didn't think I would even field 9 ever). The 10th for no other reason to add 3 more wounds and increase the chance the squad rolls on. A game or two will tell if its necessary.

Yes its crazy but o well.....thoughts?

I love Grotesques. I love WWP. I have tried this kind of list, too. Thing is, what do you do in Dawn of War? Suddenly your big unit can't be deployed as it's Elite, so you either let them come in from your table edge, which hampers the effectiveness of the WWP, or deploy one Haemonculus with 10 Wracks up front, the other one as planned in the Grotesques and then hope your 'scout' unit survives.

I have found that the possibility to be in your opponent's face T2 is well worth an additional 70 or so points to buy one single transport, possibly two. If you don't mind, I can post my WWP list, which has been quite succesful (except against those über-lame lists). It is similar to yours, yet 'faster'.

Oh, and you lack AT big time. where are the Heat Lances (Scourges)? Blasters (Trueborn)?

But loving the fact that you're using Malys! She complements the Grotesques very well, as they lack power weapon attacks.

The thing about Webway portal list is that if you need the portal right in the face of your opponent's deployment zone to even be a threat to begin with. I would honestly take two venoms or raiders and put the portal guys in there and zoom them at least 12" away form your deployment zone and pop the portals. From there on out, it will be much more viable to play with the rest of the army as your opponent will now have to deal with a lot of nonsense up their alley.

In addition, there is the fact that with concentrated firepower, even the huge squad of Grotesque would die quite quickly. In addition, the fact still remains that they are very, very slow. This often means lost time to deal damage to your opponent if your units are coming out in waves. In addition, against a much more agile opponent, your list would suffer from not being able to catch up to them.

Then there is the third weakness to the list; your anti-tank requires you to come in as a MMA fighter and pummel them to the ground. It would be preferable that you crack open the shell first before you get to the juicy morsels inside from afar. I would honestly suggest that you take some Trueborn or some Reavers to solve the anti-tank problem (though I am a proponent of the Ravager for this particular list).

The list has potential, but it needs to place the portals quickly into the opponent deployment zone to reduce their reaction time against the whole webway portal nonsense that will rip their souls apart. Never give your opponent the time to react. Kinnay does have a point when it comes to Dawn of War, and thus I would suggest reducing two squads of Wrack to 9 men squads and letting them have a raider. Put the Haemonculi in there, and let them rip. In a normal game, you would be able to put the portals at two different locations (preferable near objectives and in a pincer) which will annoy the hell of your opponent.

To start with your beastmaster units are illegeal. You may only have 2 razorwing flocks with that amount of beastmasters.

I was very close to fielding a unit of 10 Grotesques with double Haemonculi at the European Team Championships this year.
That unit is Fearless and can most definitely put the hurt on tank-spam and safely deliver a portal.
I am still disappointed that we chose the "regular" venom spam, as it would be cool to have "the only" different Dark Eldar army, instead of just one of the rest of them.

As mentioned above, you do need a back-up plan for when it is Dawn of War.

And if you want to play a pure WWP-list, I would recommend reavers/scourges as mobile and very flexible anti-tank.
And harlequins ignoring terrain have their uses too.

teknistmajjan wrote:

To start with your beastmaster units are illegeal. You may only have 2 razorwing flocks with that amount of beastmasters.

Each unit has 2 Beastmaster and each Beastmaster can bring up to 2 so I'm good.

Regarding some of the other comments, many valid points.

I should have added this list was never intended for tourney play. Just your simple rock'm sock'm robot kinda game.

I know it lacks your typical AT but in an all foot army many oppossing vehicles become deminished and don't require immediate attention if at all. A Predator Annialator can kill up to 3 foot a turn not that scary IMO, it can't take objectives etc. so you deal with it if you need to. Then if 1 talos makes it out it becomes even less of a threat. That's just one example, so again IMHO you don't always need to apply the same formula to obtain the desired result, a win.

I'm not so sure the big nasty can't take a concentrated beating (I do worry about Walkerx9 scatter laser spam). Its a crazy fun concept I hope2 try it in the near future but I enjoy the coments

actually no, each beastmaster can only bring one type of beast, so for your list to be legal you would need 3 beastmasters, 1 for the kymeras, 1 for 2 razorwings, and 1 for the 3rd razorwing.

Shadows Revenge wrote:

actually no, each beastmaster can only bring one type of beast, so for your list to be legal you would need 3 beastmasters, 1 for the kymeras, 1 for 2 razorwings, and 1 for the 3rd razorwing.

Thanks, I've never really tried to incorporate them into my lists before and missed that little gem so I stand corrected and will go back and modify the list accordingly.

Regarding DOW, as someone mentioned I would take one of the Haem's and attached them to a unit of 10 Wracks. My second Troop choice would probably be another 10 man Wrack unit. If I was able to go first I would place them smack dab in the middle of the table pushed all the way to the edge of my deployment. The reason being is my opponent has a bunch of his stuff off board as well and I have to get that first WWP in a position where I can best deal with his stuff and that IMO is as close to the middle of his deployment zone as possible. From that point I can drop the second (when they come in) pushed towards the bigger threat zone created by my opponents reserve deployment. I believe that an 11 man T4 unit with FNP and the possibility of cover should suffice against like units from my opponent (HQ, 2 TRP). Also one advantage I have is the abiilty to redeploy via Malys' ability if need be for 1 or both of the units I'm allowed to deploy. DOW is tough for any WWP list because you don't have the advantage of knowing where best to deploy it based on your opponents full (or near full deployment), typically the best place is going to be in the middle and that should be easily reached on foot as it would by plane.

ok, now that I have time, I can comment on the list

First off I love wwp, but I would like to point out that I think you have a problem with "too many eggs in one basket" here with the Grots. They are rocking over a 4th of your army in one unit. Yes they are T5 with alota wounds and fearless... but they cant be every place at once, and on top of that they can be easily shot to death by most convential spam lists (heck, BA running Las/PlasBack Spam would have a field day with it)

So first I would split the grots up into two squads, this gives you the tactical advantage of dropping two portals in different locations T1. THis gives you more tactical advantage with Malys ability, as you can force the opponent into a corner with a portal placement in the middle and on flank, then use her ability to move the portal right in front of them

As for grots as portal carriers Im alittle iffy. I find them to be very useful coming out of the portal and wrecking havoc. They have a great statline, and with FC they wreck most tanks with ease. As carriers I think they will be weakened by incoming fire, and be less effective on for what they do best, busting open some heads. I find a venom with 3 wracks a VERY cheap alternative for portal duty, or if you want to stay footslogging, Harlies with a Shadowseer.

Actually, I don't think there is anything that shoots out a unit of 10 Grotesques in cover except Broadside spam.
I'd say their "only" weakness is close combat and especially against Grey Knights...

are you sure??? las/plas is 3 shots that wound on 2s and go through their FNP, so their only save a cover save. Ofc mathammer dictates itll take 18 shots to deal 5 wounds, but thats how many shots 6 las/plas puts out. Out of cover they are dealing almost 10 wounds a turn! As well as since they are the only thing on the board, you have auto/las preds, and maybe a rifleman dread or two. There goes more Grots. At that points with all that S7, your 35 pt model is just as survivable as a 10 wrack. Sure Grots are better at anything S6 and lower, but rarely do you see S6 except for PsyHBolters and Eldar SC spam, with maybe a AC pred in a BA list.

Shadows Revenge wrote:

are you sure??? las/plas is 3 shots that wound on 2s and go through their FNP, so their only save a cover save. Ofc mathammer dictates itll take 18 shots to deal 5 wounds, but thats how many shots 6 las/plas puts out. Out of cover they are dealing almost 10 wounds a turn! As well as since they are the only thing on the board, you have auto/las preds, and maybe a rifleman dread or two. There goes more Grots. At that points with all that S7, your 35 pt model is just as survivable as a 10 wrack. Sure Grots are better at anything S6 and lower, but rarely do you see S6 except for PsyHBolters and Eldar SC spam, with maybe a AC pred in a BA list.

The problem is making WWP viable. I think mixing delivery systems gets lost in translation and overall effectiveness. You either spend to little on a few Raiders/Venoms which in turn get blown out of the air (esp. if you end up going 2nd) or on to many which somewhat defeats the point of a WWP list as you might as well just buy more Raiders/Venoms. You’re in essence paying twice for the same thing.

I believe a big unit of Grots will outlast "paper planes" and deliver the WWP more times than not; especially in the event you get stuck going 2nd. All those nasty weapons you mentioned can make even faster work of a Raider or Venom because it takes just 1 of those shots to cripple a Raider, where it takes a minimum of 3 to loose a Grot. To correct you somewhat they are not as survivable as 1 Wrack, each is as survivable in your scenerio above as 3 Wracks. Also once that Raider or Venom is downed the small squad (typically of minimum size) escorting the WWP carrier can be easily vaporized.

Why I don’t like 2 smaller units, first there is an inherent psychological effect putting down 9 (or 10) Grots during deployment that two smaller units just don’t have, second its easier for your opponent to wipe out 4 Grots to negate a WWP deployment, as opposed to requiring the death of 9 Grots to stop a single WWP deployment. Finally having only 1 unit I’ve guaranteed myself the option of redeploying it since Lady M’s ability is variable but never less than one. However, if I’m able to lock in the Grots deployment right away I have the bonus of being able to throw out a unit to feint with, like a Talos hoping to manipulate my opponent into deploying units in a way to either deal with it or avoid it, just to have it sucked back into the Webway prior to the start of the game.

Also regarding the Grots percieved "weakness" in HtH; I'd like to think I have addressed it somewhat with the addition of Lady M. She has the potential to throw out up to 8 S4 I8 PW attacks (she has grenades) on the charge. Then you have the Haem's with up to 8 S4 PW attacks, although these are not backed with grenades and will go second against GK with Halberds. Also since they are with Lady M the Grots are no longer subject to force weapon autokill because they are immune to psychic powers.

Forgot about Malys + FW.

Nice!

Whoa, yes, nice catch with Malys' immunity to FW! Makes it all the better.

But still, I need to understand how you want to use the Grotes (let's not call them 'Grots', it sounds... diminutive).
Let's go through the different scenarios:

- Spearhead: Perfect! Deploy the Grotes as far to the center in cover as possible, survive first round of shooting without a scratch, move forward and deploy the gate. It should be in range of everything or at least close enough. Good job, the unit is now free to kick butt.

- Pitched Battle: Meh. Deploy as far forward as possible, move first turn and you have a dilemma: deploy the gate now and basically have all your reserves walk across the table (making the WWP moot), or run and deploy next turn, where they should be able to reach a tactically valuable point on the table - however risking to have some of your reserves walk even further from your table edge. Both options aren't very cool.

- Dawn of War: crap! You can't deploy the Grotesques, and walking them up first turn is silly. Make them reserves themselves and join the Haemo to a big Wrack unit. Deploy in cover (!!!) far up front and pray you survive. You may want to join the second Haemo, too, so the unit becomes Fearless and can't be pinned (believe me, that sucks).

You see what I mean? Only in Spearhead is the WWP deployment by Grote-Taxi an optimal option. In every other scenario they are too slow. This is why I always bring at least one small WWP deployment unit in a vehicle. Yes, it's going to get shot down first turn. So what? It's worth the 70 points or so to have a guaranteed in-your-face WWP.

Spearhead - enough said, probably the best scenerio

Piched Battle - As you mentioned, move forward have one of the Haem's drop a WWP to ensure that no early arrivals (2nd turn reserves) are left having to come in from the baseline. Now based on my opponents setup I would have decided before moving to maybe position the unit and the 1 Haem in such a way that the unit and remaining ICs could then run off closing the distance to the enemy. The 2nd turn would then see the unit pushing in and probably deploying the 2nd WWP (or holding it depending on how the battle is going). The Heam left behind if alive would pick up and join a unit coming out in the 2nd turn. Since the unit has 2 WWPs in it, just like any WWP list I'd be dropping the "safty portal" turn 1 and pushing deeper with the 2nd.

Dawn of War - Since ICs can be assigned at deployment not at list creation, I would end up probably putting a Haem in 1 unit of Wracks using the other unit to provide a screen and cover save. I would deploy the WWPs as above. Malys and the other Haem would stay with the Grotesques and come through the portal later. The nice thing here is that Malys redeploy rule doesn't require that she is on the board so I may feint with 1 or both units. However as i said before DOW is IMO the worst scenerio for a WWP list. This is because most of your opponents units are coming in from a forced reserve and can more easily react to where the WWP was deployed if they went 2nd. Now its a catch 22 because you'd like to go second to see where your opponents units are committed to before dropping the first WWP however going second means you get fired at before dropping a WWP. Now this fire should be very limited due to the Nigh Fight rules so I feel between a cover save and FNP they are hardy enough to get the job done.

I think the Grotesques are more dureable than Raider/Venoms especially if you don't win the right to go first. Taking a vehicle as a saftynet to deploy a WWP is only useful 50% of the time because any general worth their salt will have at least 1 if not more (if you bought more) of our fragile DE vehicles laid low if they won the right to attack first.

With WWP, I think that more often than not, you should go second if you have the choice.

Play a reactive game and at least contest all objectives to have a "guaranteed" win.

speedfreek wrote:

With WWP, I think that more often than not, you should go second if you have the choice.

Play a reactive game and at least contest all objectives to have a "guaranteed" win.

I think it depends on the scenerio however DE vehicles don't respond well to being shot at while stationary or without first reducing the amount of incoming shots. This is another reason I'm trying to figure out a WWP list that isn't so worried about always going first and that means vehicles become as much a liability as they are a boon.

So I have been thinking and made some changes, most of which are not so loosely based on the boat version I've been working on previously as well as some feedback. It includes the "not so controversial" single Haemonculus with two Webway Portals (see rules forums). I think this is probably one of the only type of lists that it would even make sense to appear in tbh. Some units are gone, some new ones have appeared but the concept and how I would intend to play it is the same. 1 big fat unit to start everyone else to follow via the Webway; accept in DOW, where the starting unit(s) are slightly different.

Now there is some trade-off going with the single Haem with WWPx2 in that I've lost two Liquifiers however the points it freed up to the tune of about 80 along with a few other changes has opened up some serious options. It's why I love the DE codex, if you don't choose to pigeon hole yourself into the typical NetList forumals the possibilities are huge. You know the type.....Ravagers x3, multiple units of BlasterBorn in Venoms, Duke or Baron sprinkle in some warriors maybe wyches in Venoms or Raiders, rinse and repeat.

Now my thoughts with a true foot WWP list is (and I apologize for the analogy up front) its like building a good old school Magic CCG deck. Since everything coming out is random you need to make sure each of what you plan on using is represented more than once (typically up to the maximum allowed). You can't rely on needing a single"unit" to do job X in your list, because that unit might not show up for 3 or more turns (or not at all) depending on your dice. However, if you have three of that unit now you've tripled your chances of seeing it sooner and being able to take the task at hand and run with it. Long is the list of people that got beat badly because they were hoping for (relying on) "that one card" out of 60 to show up....


HQ

Lady Aurelia Malys (1) - Her stuff

Haemonculus (1) – Power Weapon, Webay Portal x2


ELITE
Grotesques (10) – Liquifier, Aberration, Flesh Gauntlet (Malys & Haem go here)


TROOP
Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2

Wracks (10) – Liquifier x2


FAST ATK
Scourges (5) - Haywire Blasters x2

Scourges (5) - Haywire Blasters x2

Scourges (5) - Haywire Blasters x2

HVY SUPPORT
Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Talos (1) – Twin-linked Liquifier, Twin-linked Haywire Blaster

Total 1850 (of 2000)


150 pt OPTIONS:
1. Wracks (10) - Liquifier x2, Acothyst, Agoniser
2. Wyches (10) - Haywire, Hekatrix, Agoniser
3. Bloodbrides (8] - Haywire, Syren, Agoniser
4. Trueborn (6) - Haywire, Blaster x4, Dracon
5. Trueborn (3) - Haywire, Blaster x2 + Trueborn (3) - Haywire, Blaster x2, Shredder
6. Incubi (6) - Klaivex

So option 1 increases my base troop type, adds in those two lost Liquifiers from the Haem's along with some added punch by way of an Agoniser; it also stays true to the theme. Option 2 gives me a softer but faster unit (much hardier in HtH), with some additonal close in AT. Option 3 is a more killy version of 2 but isn't a scoring unit.

The next three options I looked at not only from the perspective of what they do but why they would be in the list. I feel that Lady Malys is quite a bit out of place in a very heavy Coven theme list, so these next options provide a supporting cast by acting as her escorts/bodyguard, while still fullfilling a role in the list (AI, AT, etc). In essence she didn't come to the Coven alone. Options 4 and 5 are pretty much the same but the later works on the premise of dividing the number of shots but doubling the chance of a unit of that type and role appearing sooner than later. Option 6 is the true elite bodyguard, no shooting but offers armor, speed and can crack the hardest nuts.

I'm sure there are many more options that I've missed that would play nice with the 1850pt core however there is only Elite and Troop slots available. Its all foot so no vehicles. I would love to hear other options to spend that final 150 or why you might like one over another.

Do you have any specific plans on how to counter S10?
Thunderwolves, Dreads, Deathrollas, Kans?

It depends on many factors, the first being, am I facing a cut throat competative list or a more friendly hobby-centric list? I believe I have mentioned before this list leans more towards the competative (light) side of the game vs the no nonsense tourney side, i.e. I wouldn't want to see 9 Broadsides either.

Now of the 4 units you mentioned the only one that has given me any pause has been the Deathrolla. Unfortunately theres more to any good answer than just "I'll do X". There are so many variables involved like....
1. How many Deathrolla's does my opponent have 1, 2, 3, O' Heaven 4!!!
2. What's the scenerio and the deployment options.
3. What does my opponent have to support the Deathrolla's, is everyting mechanized?
4. Am I going first or second?
5. What's the terrain like?

Now some things I might do to minimize their impact; first I'll have the abilty to redeploy the unit (Malys), so I can move them if need be. I don't have to reserve units like the Scourges, or Talos so if I find my opponent is going for a "rush" and is heavily mechanized I may start some of these units on the board. He may want to get to me more than I want to get to him. I could drop the portals in a way to block lanes as it is impassable etc.

There is no magic pill nor is this list an "I win button". I believe the list provides the tools when paired with a good player to overcome or minimize most siuations or lists it faces. I think this list has the potential to be one of the more viable WWP lists. My goal has been to provide a WWP/Foot option to the more typical raider rush or venom spam lists we see daily. I appreciate challenges and questions as my biggest fear is people seeing the DE codex from a narrow perspective; basically giving up on being "creative" in their list building by just going with a typical "NETLIST".

I mean I don't know about you (the reader) but I get pretty board with most of the lists that people are putting up as they aren't very diverse. I'm sure some may say the same about this list, but I'd bet dollars to donuts a new list posted is probably going to have Ravagers x3 as its Heavy support choice. In the end it becomes a debate about should there be 3 Blasterborn or 4 in the Venom.

Now back to my list (and off the soap box). I have been thinking about maybe dropping a unit of Scourges and replacing it with that 6 man Trueborn unit. This keeps the number of AT capable units in the list the same (I don't want to be waiting for that "one card"). It opens up a FA slot which I would fill with a Beast unit (2 BM, 4K & 4RWF). This adds to my AI units (so its redundant) but provides me with the added tactical advantage of being able to quickly reach an opposing unit right out of the portal; something the Wracks struggle with.

Hey guys I'm only a forum n00b but I'll weigh in if I may....I spoke with Speedfreek at ETC about the potential of Grots (Hi mate, its Paul the Irish DE player) and I think its great to see a list like this appear so soon after the discussion!

@ Fletch...much respect on the list...I believe it will have the str 10 issues as pointed out but you seem to have thought out some solid counters

While we're on the subject why not throw in something properly weird....my answer to this one is....Mandrakes

I know it sounds crazy but this seems like a topic thats open to input, so here goes
1. Having stealth, if you deploy them out they make a really interesting caddy for the WWP haem.
2. Having the haem with them will give the unit 20 str 4 ap 4 shots.
3. They're not at all shabby in combat...good amount of attacks and high str for DE
4. The str 4 actually makes them potentially useful for stun locking arm if needs must
5. The Malys redeploy is crazy good with these guys...Making it very very possible to get first turn charges. Disrupt enemy plans or even decide after the fact that you want them to outflank. The nature of the portal means that they can even deploy from it after declaring outflank

Anyway I know its reaching (everybody hates Mandrakes) but I think they're worth a shot. They're a bag of tricks in the truest sense so will suit an army like this

For good or ill I might give em a shot

Thanks,

I have tried to figure out a way to include Mandrakes but unfortunately that is one hard unit to synergize.

First if I include a Haem I can't infiltrate the Mandrakes or outflank.

Second they just don't have the staying power that Grotesques offer a WWP carrier.

Now if I could attach a Haem and infiltrate, well thats another story but alas I can't.


Now on to that last 150 points......

I think I've settled on a unit which has gone through many combinations and the points left over just don't add that much to anything else (i.e. Wracks, Scourges, Grots, Talos) and I really don't like the idea of min/max (i.e. MSU of TB w Blaster). Although this unit isnt much beefier. They are Lady Malys' attendants while she is helping Mr. Haemonculus.

Trueborn (5) - Blaster x4, Haywire Grenades, Dracon w/ Blastpistol.

***EDIT***
I could go with the cheap version since, by all accounts this unit should be a high priority target of most lists which means they will all probably end up dead after a turn or two and probably will not get close enough to use the HW or BP. With that in mind again, there isn't many places to spend the 42 points. I have given thought to upgrade the Haem to an Ancient just for the slightly better stateline and extra Wound and a bit more fluffy (Thats how he can role with an all Coven force and get Lady M to show up). I could still buy another TB.......TBH this is why I love the DE codex....I have options.

Trueborn (5) - Blaster x4 (I just can't go with 4 TB, makes me feel sorta dirty).

Haemonculus Ancient (1) - Power Weapon, WWP x2
-or- Upgrade a Wrack in one unit to Acothyst w Agoniser