1650 pure DE army list

Greetings fellow archons of the dark city,

Right, I got a about 8 or so games of 7th ed under my belt, winning against blood angels mainly, and one game against Eldar (wasn't a busted list though.) I'll be playing in my first 7th ed tourney at the end of October.

I'm a big fan of Pure DE lists and want it to be as competitive as possible without allies (a option in 7ed. I despise). As a result there are no allies in this list and won't be, I like a challenge!  

Anyway let me know what you think,



Dark elder 1650points -Realspace Raiders Detachment


HQ
Succibus        
Glaive
Armour of misery
Total      110

Elite
4 Incubi
Klaivex
raider

Total      145

Troops
5 Kabalite warriors
Venom
Splinter cannon
Total      105

10 Kabalite warrior
Raider
     
Total      135


Fast
Razorwing Jet Fighter with Dark lances Total 140


Razorwing Jet Fighter with Dark lances Total 140


5 Scourges  
4 haywire blasters  
Total 120

5 Scourges  
4 haywire blasters  
Total 120

6  Reaver Jetbikes  
1 x Caltrops
2 x blasters
Total  131

6 Reaver Jetbikes  
2 x Caltrops   
Total  126

Heavy
1 Ravager with 3 Dark Lances 125
1 Ravager with 3 Dark Lances 125
1 Ravager with 3 Dark Lances 125

Overall Total 1647

edited - final list above

My orginal list had dark lances and blasters in the kabalite warriors unit which acted like a mini ravagers except it did not move much for the first few turns, could jink and fire more of its weapons etc. But just changed it as I wanted to fit Klaivex into the incubi unit. Other options I'm still thinking of are - blasters instead of splinter cannons and night shields instead of splinter racks.

suggestions?

lmk thanks,

I always try to put night shields on my Raider but that could be problematic to fit in the points...

with more and more ignore cover stuff in opponents lists, I keep debating wether its worth it or not. I could drop the splinter cannon for it, but it is 4 extra shots min. or the splinter racks.....

hmm tricky.....

with more and more ignore cover stuff in opponents lists, I keep debating wether its worth it or not. I could drop the splinter cannon for it, but it is 4 extra shots min. or the splinter racks.....

hmm tricky.....

You're right of course. If you face enemies with ignore cover, don't use them. I just don't know about your local meta, I don't have those weapons here... Except flamers of course.

I dig it, you've made good use of RSR and the list doesn't have much fat. I don't think you need the SCs on the warriors though. Your paying 10 pts for what will often just be 2 more splinter shots.

I also think you might consider evaluating the HLs depending on what you know you might face. S8 range 18" is superior vs everything non mech but especially wraith knights. I've had a rethink myself recently on these.

By the same token consider keeping the disi cannons on your raiders. They force tough decisions for bikes and dint suffer from jinking quite as badly.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

@CptMetal - I don't really know what my enemies will be fielding as a whole (I know that there will be 1 blood angels army, 1 ork army (loads of rokkits) and 1 dark angels thus far.) I imagine most/ each army will have some kind of ignores cover element to it. hence my reluctance to invest in night shields in general. The fact that Dark angels is the lastest flavour of the month atm kinda reinforces my assumption in this regard I think. (ie other players metaing against dark angels will screw my army as well! )

@ Brom - Yeah not crazy about the splinter cannons but you want to max the effectiveness of the splinter racks. Your suggestion about dis. on the raiders has really given me a idea about my config. of the kabalites. and free up a 10 points for my klaivex I so want to fit in.

option 1 -10 kabalite warriors with blaster and Dark lance like I had originally but with the raider having dis. cannon instead of Dark lance.

option 2 - 10 kabalite warriors with blaster and splinter rack and raider with dark lance.


option 3 - 10 kabalite warriors with blaster and splinter rack and raider with dark lance.- 10 more points freed up.

option 4 - 10 kabalite warriors with splinter cannon and splinter rack and raider with dark lance.

If you had to pick an option which one and why?


HL/blaster on the reavers has always been a tough call. I originally was in favour in blaster for the very reasons you have stated, then read the debate on here and elsewhere and leaned towards the HL, after setting up that configuration on both my reavers squads, my thoughts have now come full circle and I find myself leaning back towards blasters again. Damn my indecision!!

lmk thanks,

Well I feel you've got a critical mass of lance and anti tank in general. I'm not overly concerned about mech as opposed to say flyrants at this point. I'd look to squeeze the warriors to fit some tidbits in, like splinter cannons on the razorwings and necros for wounding WKs on 2s. This would put you 16 pts over since you've already included the klaivex.

Of those you listed 2 and 3 are identical :-P and idk probably 2. I'd say you definitely want racks it makes them relevant vs fmc's and also the disi's for bikes/meq, then it's just whether you want the blaster or not. Probably do. The dark lance will force them to be immobile I wouldn't do that. So with that said consider this build: If you lose a warrior from each squad and go with what I mentioned above you should have 10 pts to play with.. from memory.

lol! facepalm! option 3 should have a dis. cannon on it not dark lance.

I think you should drop the blasters and the darklances on your gunboats-Im never a fan of mixing and matching weapon purposes. I also think you should drop the heatlances on the Reavers, you have double haywire scourges and triple ravager - 2 more heatlances wont do anything.

As stated by others, the Dissy cannon gives you three shots of ap2, even if you jink with both boats you'll get a hit. The blaster takes away from the effectiveness of the splinter racks plus if you are tempted to shoot at armour with it you've wasted a lot of shooting. A cannon doesn't add much either, typically only 2 shots and sometimes not even that- yay salvo. With 10 rifles even against jinking Marine/Eldar bikes you should kill 3, a 3+ save vs statistically around 8-9 wounds rapid firing.

As far as the scourges go Im on the fence- Ive used both heat lance and haywire, Heatlance deepstrike is nasty, 4 haywire "should" take 3HP a turn. Personal preference I think.

I've rarely played a ravager in the new codex, certainly I wouldn't spend for 3 dark lances as one will always be snap shotting- save the 5 points. You'd be better off adding nightshields to those- some judicious placement or downright ballsy run into cover can gain you a 3+ or even 2+ cover without jinking. Personally I would even drop the 3rd ravager altogether for more bikes. 2 squads of 6 with maybe a champion with an agoniser, or even just double caltrop each. Again no guns, as typically they are slamming into opponents trying to bladevane and not shooting, or flat outing around the board grabbing obhjectives. CC support is nice, but not super necessary.

Quote :

lol! facepalm! option 3 should have a dis. cannon on it not dark lance.

Oh gotcha well then I say option 3 of those you listed.

Darkgreen Pirate makes some great points and gunboat warriors focused on splinterfire are definitely a valid option. However on the ravagers and reaver weapons I think you would need to evaluate your local meta. If you expect wraith knights you need S8 saturation if you plan on dealing with them head on and those units (warriors included actually) are the cheapest places to spam S8.

thanks again guys for your comments and suggestions.

I like the HL (might change them to blasters though) on reavers and blasters on the gun boats purely for the fact that it gives me options.

on reavers its the option shooting something then hiding behind cover in the assault phase and the threat of popping vehicles is good to have.

Quite a few things i would shoot with splinter rifles I can also shoot at with the blaster as well ie wraith knights, ripetides, MC's and infantry with +2 saves even instant death T4 models like crisis suits is nice to have.

Also if the raider gets wrecked/explodes, you take the blaster with you (if he survives).

I'm a big fan of 4 haywire blasters on scourges ( so much so I field 2 units. ;P) and have had great success with them in my games thus far.

@ Darkgreen pirate - I hear ya in regards to night shields, would love to stick the ravagers but it pushes them up to 140 points (I lean towards dark lances as opposed to dis. cannon. in general) and with my fear of so much ignores cover stuff out there in opposing armies I think I'm gonna stay clear on them for the moment and see if my assumptions are right in this regard for this tourney.

I'll stick up a battle report when I get back from it and I've sobered up.

later,

doom

Good hunting!

Brom wrote:

I also think you might consider evaluating the HLs depending on what you know you might face. S8 range 18" is superior vs everything non mech but especially wraith knights. I've had a rethink myself recently on these.

I believe it's S6.

Darkgreen Pirate wrote:

I've rarely played a ravager in the new codex (...)

Could you, please, elaborate this? For me it was a shock, I always take max ravagers -- almost without a thought. I'd be glad to look at the matter from another point of view.

If I may add my two cents to the debate, I would root for Cluster Caltrops on the bikes without any special ranged weapons. The reason is as follows: Thanks to skilled rider I can jink on 3+ and thanks to the fact it's being an eldar jetbike, it can move 12" per moving phase and 36" per shooting phase (Turbo Boost). Thus, I can position myself very well, have relatively good save (except in case of ignores-cover weapons, but hey, what can we do against them), jink and still be effective next turn. Moreover, if you hit a vehicle (let's say it's a Rhino, as it's sth I've found to be the most common vehicle on the board), you hit it with 1x 1D6 Hammer of Wrath (HoW) attacks with S6 and rending, meaning you score a glancing hit on 4+, penetrating hit on 5+, and with next 2+ S4 HoW attacks.

However, I must say that I have minimal experiences with playing against armies with IC-weapons, meaning I find it quite reasonable to use blasters on the bikes, for your "threat range" is 30" (12" move + 18" range) instead of 13" - 24"(12" move + 2D6" charge).

Hope it helps a little bit. Also, good luck.

Edit: I almost forgot! Fingers crossed for your Incubi/Succubi unit. Please do tell us how it went with it. I'm so attracted to those models.

@ čiernyčaj - thanks for your input. Think brom was referring to the blaster in the above quote, basically fielding blasters on jetbikes over heat lance. Its better universally where as HL main advantage is vs vehicles only (HL only wounding a wraith knight on a 6 for example.)

I love that Incubi/Succubi unit its performed well for me thus far.

I've updated my list for the final time and its the one I will going to the tourney with at the end of the month. I'll let you know how I get on.

later,

doom

\"čiernyčaj wrote:

Darkgreen Pirate wrote:

I've rarely played a ravager in the new codex (...)

Could you, please, elaborate this? For me it was a shock, I always take max ravagers -- almost without a thought. I'd be glad to look at the matter from another point of view.

Absolutely mate!

Its the lack of Aerial assault rule- You have two weapons you can fire at full effectiveness if you move, which literally means you need to have 3 ravagers to reliably kill a single vehicle per turn (6 shots, 4 hit, 3+ on average to glance/pen assuming rhino/razorback is about 3 HP) that's 370 points or so to take out one vehicle reliably (I know there will be penetrating hits, but we are working in averages here).  Haywire and Heatlance scourges are more effective, three scourge squads with four haywires put out nine hits per turn, and on average each squad of 4 will wreck any 3HP vehicle on its own and cost the same as 3 ravagers. They lose out on 12" of range, but move just as fast and still get an invulnerable save for what its worth.

You also partially make my point for me, Reavers are far better at light vehicle wrecking than ravagers. Everything you said about reavers is true, and in a squad of 6 at about 160 points you can have 2d6 Str 6 rending hits, or on average seven. If you've played it right- you'll hit rear or side armour, vs AV11 you will strip 2HP, including a penetrating hit. The other squaddies get 4 Str4 rending, so you will get an extra HP two thirds of the time. If its a squad of 9? dead rhino a turn. at still less cost than 3 ravagers by a longshot. Also your 3+ save when jinking is why I don't shooty weaponize them, they are always jinking.

Dark artisan is nice to wreck vehicles too, plus an archon wwp heatlance scourge is our very own melta pod of sorts, same as 5 trueborn in a raider with blasters and wwp HQ. All cheaper and more effective than a ravager.

don't get me started on allies  

On the flip side ravagers are still the most efficient source of mobile lances we have. Their main purpose has shifted from AT to threaten wraithknights, double out multi wound models and then supplement anti tank. I dont feel they are an auto 3 of anymore, or even an auto include but they are still worthwhile. Heart lances and haywire are just too specialized and reavers while amazing and versatile tend to fold to certain weaponry so it's risky to spam them. Currently I like 2 but even that varies week to week. Blasters on bikes are basically a nod to gladius and again wk´s. There's much worse ways to spend 10 pts then on a jsj unit. I don't like ranged upgrades on units beyond unit size 3 though.

@Darkgreen Pirate Thanks a lot. I will certailny try out this way of DE anti-tank.

O.k. I'm back from the tourney, and I'm wrecked. had a good time though. I'll write up a quick report and let you know how I got on soon. btw Thanks for everyone's suggestions,

later,

doom

round 1 up - http://www.thedarkcity.net/t13130-1650-point-touney-report-with-pure-dark-eldar-list#148819

will get to other round asap.

later,

doom