Inter-Kabal Writing

I really like it so far, as for "Honorable" being the opposite of Manipulative... Lawful Evil? Keeping your word but manipulating it to your purposes? (Yes I realize this is a simple system but I had to comment on it) (and it is a kind of weakness isn't it? Interesting one to have though.)

There seems to be a lack for constructing machinery and constructing weapons, armor, ect. So Craftsaman or Technician.

Do Dark Eldar have anything similar to a computer so we could have hackers and programmers? I mean I know Scourges are the messengers but the Dark Eldar have some form of computer right?

Stealth, and pick pocketing seem missing as well. Also is Intimidation tied in with Persuasion?

Thanks man

Yeah definitely swap 'Disguise' for 'Stealth'. Much broader and more evocative.

Agreed on the technological/craftsman thing. Especially seeing as Incubi are expected to make their own warsuits. Need a suitably Dark Eldar techno-futuristic word for it. 'Craftsman' sounds like a boring eldar Path that no self-respecting Commorite would tread anywhere near

I like pick-pocketing as a skill too perhaps replace it with 'cut-purse'. Sounds more sinister

I'd say intimidation would be tied into persuasion, but perhaps using the rolling system you'd roll off on strength and toughness rather than manipulative.

Also, a thought's just occurred to me. If you want to go back to the original idea of the thread which was inter-kabal conflicts, what you'd really need is some sort of customisable Risk-like turn based strategy thing you could do online and tailor to Commorragh.

Actually the idea was to not only add more to Kabal conflicts, but perhaps trade (Inter-kabal (and other factions) relations besides conflict), and fleshing out areas of the dark city as hubs we RP in, I liked the idea of a giant empty canvas and we as the community filling it in.

It could be fun to chronicle these RPs in our Kabal's lore in their own pages as well and bring life to our RP and Kabals. This was the idea that spawned this.


As for the Kabal Conflicts I think we'll need a to look more into that and flesh it out quite a bit. For now let us go with this system and grow from there.

As for skills such as Craftsman hmm.... I think Craftsman works honestly as it's practicing a craft and there are references of Archons practicing their crafts and weaponsmithing in Codex. The skill doesn't have to be called Forgemaster. Think we should have a skill relating to slaves?

Yeah that's a cool way to go forward as for inter-kabal stuff later, we could focus on individual duels or simply the one-on-one combat that crops up during a battle.

Yeah something slave related would be perfect.

Perhaps 'Beastmaster'. Fluffy in that it relates to a DE unit, broad in that it can apply to other aspects, and also shows the contempt with which the True Kin view the other races.

Do we need more skills or do we just want them if we need them I can (w)rack my brain for more.

Lets not get too ambitious at this point. The simpler the better. We all know how these things get too bloated, and everyone gets board/frustrated and moves on.

As a start, how about we start keeping track of our win/losses, and maybe the CC kills we get (to be brought back to the City)?

Last weekend I got a good game in,

Tie (vs IG/SM), and took about 10 SM captives (including a captain) I think the wych arenas should be pleased for a few hours

Hah puns! I'm happy to add things in as we go along there's facility for picking up skills with experience in the rule-set so that should work.

fisheyes wrote:

Lets not get too ambitious at this point. The simpler the better. We all know how these things get too bloated, and everyone gets board/frustrated and moves on.

As a start, how about we start keeping track of our win/losses, and maybe the CC kills we get (to be brought back to the City)?

Last weekend I got a good game in,

Tie (vs IG/SM), and took about 10 SM captives (including a captain) I think the wych arenas should be pleased for a few hours  

Hmmm, I see what you mean about keeping it simple rather than as a full-blown RPG.

What do people want? A basic origin-stories RPG to start with, with a 'captives tally' from games when you get far enough to have a raiding force (could be sooner rather than later if you want).

This is what I've come up with. Is it what people want, or do we want something a little less involved?

Edit: thought better of it! See triple-post below!

Spoiler:

A little too RPG for what people are looking for or ok?

No problem if not

The more I think about it, the less I think that this is what we want/will work.

There are plenty of other RPGs in the RPG section of this forum, and an 'origin stories' thing doesn't really fit the 'inter-kabal writing' idea. So, how about scrapping the whole RPG game system idea and doing something a lot simpler:

Keep a tally of games that you've won/lost, the units you've killed in close combat (and maybe the units you've lost).

Then, once a week, post up here (maybe on a new thread as this one might get confusing), alongside a little blurb about what happens when you get back to Commorragh. Much less intensive, and less likely to peter out

We can think of simple mechanics to make each thing you do count. Here's an example: each kabal starts with a given number of points. If you capture units in CC you add them to your pool of points (maybe if you win the game, you capture every slain enemy as you can pick through the battlefield afterwards).

If you lose units in battle, you have to pay a Haemonculus to resurrect those units (probably the points value of the units that died). If you don't have enough, you'll have to trade for captives with another kabal biggest kabal wins

How's that for a simple idea?

Edit: Got it!

There are two 'resources': Captives, and Renown. The idea is to gain the most renown for your Kabal/Wych Cult/Coven as you can.

For each battle you do, keep a tally of the models that die and the models that are captured. When you're back in Commorragh, you can trade your captives with the Haemonculi to resurrect your fallen warriors, or sell them to the arenas to gain renown.

If you don't have enough Captives to resurrect your warriors, you have to trade Renown with another kabal here for enough Captives to resurrect your force (or steal them with a dice roll!).

Keep a tally and the most notorious Kabal wins!

Simple, sweet and a couple of nice interactions plus, it gives a way for people to gain renown if they don't have very many games (stealing captives off other Kabals!).

What do you think?

@Ynneadwraith, your third post is basically how I see this going. Maybe add a little depth, with each player "specializing" in something, then paying captives for things like "regenerating your warlord" or getting units that you dont specialize in? Or would that be too ambitious?

So things like

"My kabal focuses on FA units (or warrior gunboats, Coven units, etc?)"

"My HQ died in the last game, so it will cost 5 captives to revive"

"With the remaining 5 captives I hired a Coven formation of Grotesques"

Something along those lines. Of course we would need to put out a point system. A simple 1 captive (CC kill in a game) for each non-specialized unit? Of course you can "borrow" against a bank to start, but if you dont pay back then another player can "buy you out" of your kabal? Then you try to buy your way back in or something?

Just some random ideas...

Double Post. Sorry.

So here is the “Fisheyes Slave Traid System” TM

This is focused around list building, using your kills from previous games. Everyone starts out with 10 Slave Points (SP), which have to be re-paid to the Haemuncli within 3 raids (which I think should be fairly easy to do).

You spend your SP to unlock unit selections, formations, and to revive units/HQs.
1 HQ and unlimited Troop sections = free
Unlock unit selections (FA, Elite, HS) = 1 SP (so 1 SP to unlock up to 3 FA for example)
Formations = 3 SP (so 3 SP to unlock the Grotesquery)
Revive HQ = 3 SP

You get SP from killing enemy units. Here is my (tentative) point list:
CC kill = 1 SP/model killed
Shooting kill = 2 SP/ UNIT killed
HQ kill = 3 SP

Of course these numbers will be decided based on popular opinion, and we can add things to earn/spend points on. Is this simple/fun enough for my fellow Archons? We can easily add in fluff around these unit choices, etc.

Well this method is certainly going to add the the amount of battle reports in the dark city I like the idea myself, so what do you guys think we could add to flesh it out?

Fisheyes wrote:

Maybe add a little depth, with each player "specializing" in something

I am the ambitious one in this but I'd love to see specializations and maybe patronages come in to play (Ties with a Coven perhaps lessen captive cost or something)

I'd like to mention that if it's only CC then shooty armies are going to be at a disadvantage (Perhaps we could have a D6 system of on a 5 or 6 the person was knocked out and taken captive?)

Do you guys want to scrap the RP aspect of this entirely or do we want to add that into the stage of the Renown section or anywhere else?

EDIT: Just saw Fisheyes Slave system, it could work but working with a handicap for Dark eldar doesn't seem too beneficial (granted it allows us to get everything with the starting points so it isn't thatma restrictive)

I like the system and your shooting thing works better then my D6 idea, although unit size should probably play a part in the shooting phase, for instance for every 5 troops it's X SP?

Yeah that works for me

I like the idea of specialties. I vote we leave it up to each of us to come up with a specialty, and describe what it does. Gives a bit of creative licence I like the “Fisheyes Slave Trade System” (patent-pending) too. Definitely simple enough to work.

Could we work the 'Renown' idea into it somehow? I like the idea of having two interconnected 'resources'. Gives a nice interplay between them, and a handy ranking system for how well you're doing

Simplified, it would go like this:

During the latest raid, my Archon's forces return with 5 SPs. Unfortunately, they also came back with the severed head of their Archon after he underestimated the skill of the enemy's warlord.

So, I spend 3 SPs to resurrect my Archon. Then, I gift the remaining 2 SPs to the arenas, netting me 2 renown for my Kabal.

Winning a battle, and killing an enemy HQ or superheavy nets you 1 renown point straight off the bat

So Slave Points are your currency, and Renown Points are your measure of success within the twisted politics of Commorragh

Could we also have a way of progressing without realspace raids? Just because I don't get the chance to very often (and I barely have an army together...). Would allow a little intrigue and interaction between our kabals if you can trade for/steal your fellow Archons' slaves

Ok, as to the value of the captives, how about we leave that up to popular oppinion? Obviously a Thunderwolf star should be worth more than a 5 man tactical squad.

“The Kabal of the _____ has brought 10 tactical SMs and 1 SM captain to the Citys Flesh pits for auction. What are the bids for this new flesh”

“Coven #1 would like these captives since SM are a rare sight in the Dark City. Wych Cult #2 doesn’t think they are worth much, due to the overabundance in the Areanas. They are worth 1 SP and 4 SP respectively”

I just want to start something easy, then we can expand based on the participation.

And as to the "restrictions", in this system you can always "borrow from the haemuncli" to up your SP as needed. Although, maybe if its not repayed in time another forum member gets to write a fluff consequence?

Something along the lines of:

"The Kabal of the _____ was owing the Coven of the Black Decent. After 3 raids of not re-paying tribute the Coven started spreading romours that the Kabal was weak. The Wych Cult _____ started viewing the Kabal as weak, and has started eyeing the Kabals spire fortress with hungry eyes….”

I like the idea of the Renown. Any suggestions (again, lets keep this simple) for advancing with Non-battle-reports? Maybe with posts on this forum? AKA 10 posts = 1 renown?

Hah SPAM ALL THE THREADS! Could work though

How about you get Renown Points for models/units that you actually finish (modelling, painting and basing). Would certainly galvanise me to paint some of the primered tide that's currently sitting on my desk

Any other ideas that could have positive effects in realspace?

I love the idea of bidding for Slave Points how about, to keep it simple, each unit is worth exactly as many SPs as you stated before (1 per model CC, 2 per unit shooting).

However, if you've killed a particularly tough unit, post up on here as a sort of 'auction' and we can pose as the bidders for your exotic captive

I think we're onto something here!

Ooh, we could link it in with the Monthly Vow thing. Succeed in your monthly vow and you get purple text and a renown point!

I'll ask Count Adhemar about it

Any other aspects of the hobby we'd like to promote?

Perfect! I like the idea of getting the usual 1/2 SP based on shooting/CC, but you can chose 1 enemy unit to put up on "Auction".

I am fine with the painting/modeling aspect of Renown.

Excellent I vote we get it started then! If anything else grows organically we can add that in later.

I'll draft up a little fluffy blurb as a bit of an intro, then we can stick it in a fresh thread so people don't have to read through 2 pages of waffle to get into it

So in summery so far, here is the outline of “Fisheyes Slave Traid System 2.0” TM

Everyone starts out with 10 SP, and 0 Reputation. SP must be repayed within 3 Raids. If unable to pay off, you loose 1 Reputation/each further raid. Further SP can be borrowed with the same restriction.

You can gain SP by killing enemy units as such:
-CC kill = 1 SP/ MODEL killed
-Shooting kill = 2 SP/UNIT killed
-HQ kill = 3 SP (in addition to any CC/Shooting SP for the HQs demise)
-At the end of a Raid, you can nominate 1 unit that was killed (entirely) to put on “Auction”, and the rest of the Dark City denizens agree on a price between 0-5 SP. Archons are encouraged to play up this particular aspect with a nice story about how strong/tough, ect it was (but ultimately nothing against the un-paralleled might of the True Kin)

You can spend SP on expanding your force selections as such:
-1HQ and unlimited Troops = free
-Unlock Unit Selection (FA, Elite, HS) = 1 SP each (ie 1 SP unlocks 3 FA slots in the CAD)
-Formations beyond your initial one= 3 SP (so to unlock a second CAD, or the Grotesquery)
-HQ revival = 3 SP

Renown Points (RP) is gained based on amount of accumulated SP, along with completing modeling/painting challenges. You are "Winning" when you have the most RP.


Of course we can discuss the finer points of how much points each are worth. But does this model satisfy everyone? Should be simple but engaging.

@Ynneadwraith, Thank you for volunteering to start the new thread. Lets just finalize the rules first if thats OK with you guys. I havent figured out how to post pictures yet, maybe you could make a small chart to show the point system?

Edited some things

Sounds good to me as soon as we're good to go let me know and I'll do a grand unveiling

I think we can simplify the army-building side slightly.

If you think about it, everyone already has their armies. Rather than 'unlocking' anything, how about say that every unit in your army has been bought for 1 SP each from a Haemonculus (apart from your first HQ, that's free). You have 3 games to repay that amount.

That way, it's scale-able. If you've only got a small army (or are playing Kill Team), you only have to pay back a lower number of points. Plus, it's less convoluted and we don't have to decide which units cost how many SPs (I vote 1 SP per unit, and 3 SP per additional HQ).

@ynneadwraith, the thing about 1SP/unit is that it hurts MSU (which is most of our armies). At 1500 I run 11 units (plus HQ). By going my route of FOC unlock I would only pay 7 SP (unlock extra HQ, Elite FOC, FA FOC, HS FOC and 1 Grot formation), but for your Unit route it would be 11 SP.

I have been toying with a double CAD, which would use 6 single bastmasters. With my method it would cost 2 SP to unlock the two FA FOC, but with yours it would be 6 SP.

However, I am willing to bow to popular opinion. Anyone else want to comment?

Shouldn't it cost more to have a more effective army?

It does hurt MSU, but i can't see anyone running big squads so it's a level playing field

Should be able to make up the points if you're decently killy in your games anyway

Well, we can certainly try it out. But I would like to get the input of a third party, possibly @Rhivan. If this is the populist approach, I will acquiesces.

Sorry for (yet another) double post, but I dont want this to die. @ynneadwraith, lets proceed with your 1SP/unit route. If you would be so kind as to start a new thread, I will gladly participate

Alternately later today/this weekend I can start this up.

Let me know guys.

-Fisheyes

Considering that I've done a triple-post (with 2 further edits!) I don't think you need to apologise

I haven't had much spare time at work this week, but I'll definitely get started on that intro thread. If I post something up tonight you can get the ball rolling on the ranking table

I also think it's a good idea to drum up some publicity I'll stick a link and a brief explanation in my sig, and do a bit of canvassing in the monthly vow thread