unorthodox list idea

Hey!

Here are some ideas floating around in my head.
ravagers aren't good AT. Msu reavers do that better. heat lance to rear armour then CC to rear armour. pretty solid for ?73? points.

lots of scalpel squadrons and tie up shooty stuff from T1. than use dark artisans with wwp to kill the tougher stuff. Wych venoms help tie up stuff in T2. snares on the venoms to get stuff out of cover.

Maybe instead of dark artisan, run units of 2 talos with ichor and join them with WWP heamie. I know you lose toughness but you only need to survive overwatch and the destructive potential with ?10? ap2 flesh bane attacks is crazy.

mandrakes could also help.

null deployment is potential and you could deep strike the wych venoms as well.

My thinking: if something is locked in combat it is as good as dead. especially good against broadsides, devastators, centurions and the like. DA and reavers can kill the stuff that would win the combat.

any other thoughts welcome.

If you're going to compare Ravagers to MSU reavers solely as an anti-tank option, then you have to compare 2 rounds of ravager shooting to 1 round of reaver attacks, since it takes at least 1 round for reavers to position for rear armour.

And when you factor in all of the positioning, potential jinking(thus losing shooting effectiveness), the possibility of not being able to get good positioning due to area denial, and all the other problems that can arise for a heat lance reaver trying to get a look at the rear armour of a vehicle, I don't think there is any way you could convince me that MSU reavers with 1 heat lance each are going to be better than ravagers with 6 dark lance shots each(before reavers would get a shot). Also, the CC attacks from reavers hammer of wrath attacks don't automatically hit rear armour, just in case you're unaware.

I just realized you're probably new. Don't feel bad, a lot of players spend years playing the game under such false pretenses.

Basically, the argument for MSU reavers as your primary source of anti-tank isn't that they're BETTER anti-tank than ravagers. They aren't. But they ARE a better unit overall, with far more versatility than a ravager. They're a danger to a wider array of targets, but against vehicles, don't kid yourself into thinking they're better. If you KNOW you're going to face a ton of vehicles, you're better off with the ravagers. If you're building an "all comers" list and have no idea what you're going to face, MSU reavers might just fit the bill, depending on the rest of your list.

As for the rest of your list idea, it sounds like you may think wracks from the scalpel squadrons may be able to charge on the turn they arrive. They can't. No units can assault when they come in from reserve/deep strike.

Independent characters also can't join units of monstrous creatures like Talos. The dark artisan is an exception to that rule.

Also, wyches suck.

ohhhh!

good point about the reavers. I also always wondered why people never deep struck Talos. and wyches suck at killing stuff, but can be decent cannon close-combat weapon fodder. thanks for the clarifications!

Wyches are good at holding up units with their ok Weapon skill and 4+ invul but are not that good at actually killing anything with T4 and 3+ save or better. As for mandrakes...I saw a story about a guy that won just with infiltrating mandrakes because his opponent reserved everything and with no enemy units on the field, they infiltrated right in the opponent's deployment zone...preventing him from deploying his forces. funny story ^^

If I was to go for an unorthodox list, it would be footdar with a counter attack force of 3 talos and beastmaster units with khymera for anything that gets too close. Ravagers and scourges for anti tank options. The look on an opponents face when you put 120 kabalites on the board would be...priceless xD

Thats an idea I had for some time already. :-D Throw in some mandrakes to prevent scout moves and CTC for outflank. Some medusae for the fun when they cluster to reach you. :-D

I've thought about playing lots of infantry like that myself. If I were to do so, I'd have to build some custom trays to hold the infantry. Moving that many models individually makes friendly games take forever and tournament games virtually impossible to finish in time.